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Lukecash12
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06 Nov 2014, 3:31 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
what the cons refuse to talk about, is the fact that before ACA, private health insurance mostly cost more than what most minimum wage earners' net income. they absolutely don't give a damn if the poor suffer and die as a result of being priced out of coverage, all they care about is their middle class complacency.


No, what they care about is getting rid of an incredibly sh***y bill and finding another solution to this issue. Everyone's rates have gone up and many people have a hard time even receiving the care that the ACA offers. The only thing that sounds like vomit to me is the "well they don't care" ad nauseum over the course of the whole thread. Seriously, tighten your belts like big boys and deal with it. The rest of the country disagreed with you.


No, the "rest of the country" didn't disagree with the President, or auntblabby, or me, as for some inane reason Democrats tend to neglect the midterm elections. That, and minimum wage increases and pot legalization - hardly Republican causes - were voted in whenever on the ballot this time around.
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.


Have you ever heard Huckabee talk on that issue? Ever seen Ron Paul do an interview on FOX network? You don't have to agree with everything on the networks to at least catch up and there are some diamonds in the rough. Huckabee in particular has been making serious proposals on the issue of health care since long before ACA.

Now when it comes to legalization, personal liberties, and a whole host of other issues I can't abide by the republicans either. It seems that neither of us can really get what we want. I doubt libertarians ever would come into power, we seem to be more of a mythical idea that no one even understands, the "heartless group".


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06 Nov 2014, 3:33 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.

if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.


The poor need to figure out how to get the money they want from the rich, not from the middle class. The middle class don't want poor people to die, rather they have to vote Republican to protect themselves from Democrats who want to take their money.


And the modern middle class includes many millionaires, whose issues are entirely different from the elite. What we have in the upper middle class are those who take the most financial risk of anyone, especially in the trucking business, yet theirs is the most thankless segment of the population when the feds vote.


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06 Nov 2014, 3:34 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.

if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.


The poor need to figure out how to get the money they want from the rich, not from the middle class. The middle class don't want poor people to die, rather they have to vote Republican to protect themselves from Democrats who want to take their money.

pssst- here's a little secret- it is the upper class that is robbing the middle class blind. research it, you will find out for yourself.



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06 Nov 2014, 3:46 am

auntblabby wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.

if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.


The poor need to figure out how to get the money they want from the rich, not from the middle class. The middle class don't want poor people to die, rather they have to vote Republican to protect themselves from Democrats who want to take their money.

pssst- here's a little secret- it is the upper class that is robbing the middle class blind. research it, you will find out for yourself.


I know. I pay $30,000 to $40,000 in taxes ever year and it makes me sick and that is after me using every trick I know per tax itemization to reduce the amount. But what can I do but vote for the person who offers to cut taxes?



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06 Nov 2014, 4:39 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
I know. I pay $30,000 to $40,000 in taxes ever year and it makes me sick and that is after me using every trick I know per tax itemization to reduce the amount. But what can I do but vote for the person who offers to cut taxes?

he [the GOP] throws main street you the crumbs while giving wall street the bakery. in exchange for cutting the moneys that go to states [gotta pay for that corporate welfare somehow], you start the vicious circle of the states, due to high numbers of unemployed people not paying taxes having to cut services and raise user fees and jails get overcrowded [GOP law and order emphasis] and end up having to dump criminals on the streets, the economy goes into the dumper because so many of the small businesses [per USCOC, vast majority of business in this nation is less than 50 employees] have to lay off people resulting in less people who are able to afford their products and services, urban blight results when enough of these businesses go tits up because too few people were employed and making money to buy the various products and services, hemorrhaging tax revenues force further state cuts, people on main street get angry at overzealous law regime so they throw gestapo-esque cops at them [Ferguson et al] and you get what we have now. I don't know about you but I don't believe the GOP has ever given anybody on main street very good value per vote. seriously, what did shrub and company ever do for you other than turn your nation and mine into something resembling an armed camp? the GOP has NEVER given a damn about small businesses, anything less than a multinational is given lip service.



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06 Nov 2014, 4:59 am

auntblabby wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
I know. I pay $30,000 to $40,000 in taxes ever year and it makes me sick and that is after me using every trick I know per tax itemization to reduce the amount. But what can I do but vote for the person who offers to cut taxes?

he [the GOP] throws main street you the crumbs while giving wall street the bakery. in exchange for cutting the moneys that go to states [gotta pay for that corporate welfare somehow], you start the vicious circle of the states, due to high numbers of unemployed people not paying taxes having to cut services and raise user fees and jails get overcrowded [GOP law and order emphasis] and end up having to dump criminals on the streets, the economy goes into the dumper because so many of the small businesses [per USCOC, vast majority of business in this nation is less than 50 employees] have to lay off people resulting in less people who are able to afford their products and services, urban blight results when enough of these businesses go tits up because too few people were employed and making money to buy the various products and services, hemorrhaging tax revenues force further state cuts, people on main street get angry at overzealous law regime so they throw gestapo-esque cops at them [Ferguson et al] and you get what we have now. I don't know about you but I don't believe the GOP has ever given anybody on main street very good value per vote. seriously, what did shrub and company ever do for you other than turn your nation and mine into something resembling an armed camp? the GOP has NEVER given a damn about small businesses, anything less than a multinational is given lip service.


Democrats wont raise taxes on the rich. This was highlighted when their many billionaire donors balked at the prospect of the higher hedge fund tax.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/25/taxes_2/

However, Democrats love to punish the middle class.



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06 Nov 2014, 5:11 am

Lukecash12 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
what the cons refuse to talk about, is the fact that before ACA, private health insurance mostly cost more than what most minimum wage earners' net income. they absolutely don't give a damn if the poor suffer and die as a result of being priced out of coverage, all they care about is their middle class complacency.


No, what they care about is getting rid of an incredibly sh***y bill and finding another solution to this issue. Everyone's rates have gone up and many people have a hard time even receiving the care that the ACA offers. The only thing that sounds like vomit to me is the "well they don't care" ad nauseum over the course of the whole thread. Seriously, tighten your belts like big boys and deal with it. The rest of the country disagreed with you.


No, the "rest of the country" didn't disagree with the President, or auntblabby, or me, as for some inane reason Democrats tend to neglect the midterm elections. That, and minimum wage increases and pot legalization - hardly Republican causes - were voted in whenever on the ballot this time around.
And as for the ACA being a sh*tty idea - you do know that it had been dreamed up by the Republicans as an alternative to the Democratic plan in the Clinton years, don't you? And as for the Republicans having an alternative plan - I have yet to hear of anything serious on that front. The right would rather that poor people stop complaining and just go bankrupt or die when medical problems arise.


Have you ever heard Huckabee talk on that issue? Ever seen Ron Paul do an interview on FOX network? You don't have to agree with everything on the networks to at least catch up and there are some diamonds in the rough. Huckabee in particular has been making serious proposals on the issue of health care since long before ACA.

Now when it comes to legalization, personal liberties, and a whole host of other issues I can't abide by the republicans either. It seems that neither of us can really get what we want. I doubt libertarians ever would come into power, we seem to be more of a mythical idea that no one even understands, the "heartless group".


No, I had not known Huckabee had any such plans for healthcare. But in all fairness, when he was in office, he had been the governor of a small state, and now is out of politics. And as this is a man who publicly states that he doesn't believe in evolution, believes the earth is only six thousand years old, opposes the civil rights of certain Americans because he doesn't approve of who they love, and questions the Americanness of the President, it's fair to say it's hard to take anything he says seriously. As for Ron Paul's plans for healthcare; all I recall him saying on the subject was something ambiguous about risk being part of freedom when asked about uninsured people, so no, I haven't heard or expected anything from him. But even if there are plans from either for healthcare, their Republican colleagues on the national scene have demonstrated little interest in taking them up. But please, do tell me just what those plans are.


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06 Nov 2014, 5:17 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Democrats wont raise taxes on the rich. This was highlighted when their many billionaire donors balked at the prospect of the higher hedge fund tax.
http://www.salon.com/2007/10/25/taxes_2/
However, Democrats love to punish the middle class.

so you think the GOP cares about you? you think the crumbs [minimal tax cuts] they throw you is worth your vote year in and year out? you should be harder to placate than that. the GOP loves to pick on the working class so I should not be expected to support them for any position higher than dog catcher.



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06 Nov 2014, 5:30 am

auntblabby wrote:
if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.


No one wants anyone to die in the streets, it's you who simply cannot accept that other people may have differing ideas on how to go about things, and sees ill intent where it doesn't exist. You also can't seem to see that you're the one that making everything nastily political, between posts lamenting how nastily political everything has gotten. Then you have the nerve to lecture the board on faulty ToM...


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06 Nov 2014, 5:45 am

Dox47 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if only the righties would JUST ADMIT IT. if they would STOP taking us for fools every time they paper over this glaringly obvious fact, then I wouldn't have quite such a hard time dealing with them- it would be merely an odious difference in opinion and not a salt-laden insult.


No one wants anyone to die in the streets, it's you who simply cannot accept that other people may have differing ideas on how to go about things, and sees ill intent where it doesn't exist. You also can't seem to see that you're the one that making everything nastily political, between posts lamenting how nastily political everything has gotten. Then you have the nerve to lecture the board on faulty ToM...

NOT true, you keep repeating that when a dead man could tell it was false. what about that right wing audience that shouted "YEAH!! !" when the question was raised about letting the poor die due to lack of affordable health care. I will never forget that or paul's lack of concern. THAT is what could be termed "different ideas on how to go about things." what a slick euphemism for "nothing for the poor." you still deny that the right wing does NOT want universal health care extended to the working class, and hardly ever did - other than Nixon [whose proposal similar to PPACA the GOP shot down immediately] the GOP never put forth any serious proposal to extend affordable health care to the working class, not one. by serious proposal I mean something that would have enabled them immediately upon enactment to go see a doctor without going bankrupt in the process. NOW does "not admitting it" make sense to you? paul had NOTHING to say about it, not only was that NOT a "different way of going about things" but a telling mark of unconcern and lack of intention. and paul is emblematic of the rest of 'em AFAIC, in that regard.



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06 Nov 2014, 7:20 am

The Democrats that stood with Obama won. (see Michigan)Those that ran away from his policies lost. Here in NC the dem (Hagan) during the debate was asked by her Republican opponent why she voted with Obama 95% of the time. She changed the subject. She should have asked what votes in particular he objected to, minimum wage? alternative energy?... etc
The secret of politics (and Republicans understand this) is never admit you are wrong, your opposition is always wrong.... The sheeple ( that are too simple to understand ambiguity ) will worship you. They do love a father figure!
Unfortunately, Democrats being more intellectual *than Republicans thrive on internal debate with all its ambiguity. Republicans believe in Reagan's statement, "never speak ill of a fellow Republican." As Will Rodgers said, "I do not belong to an organized political party. I am a Democrat!" :D
* I always laugh when Republicans claim that academia and journalists have a liberal bias. You would think they would want that kept quietThose most educated and whose job is thinking about such matters and those that spend their lives following and researching the news are liberal!


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Last edited by wittgenstein on 06 Nov 2014, 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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06 Nov 2014, 7:44 am

The Republicans hate Obamacare (based on Romneycare) because they put Obama's name on it, its the ACA. Interesting that most Americans hate Obamacare and yet agree with almost all its parts!


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


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06 Nov 2014, 7:51 am

Dox47 wrote:
I had to look them up because I kept hearing about them from liberals, I came to similar conclusions to Fnord. Seriously, a decade as a libertarian and I'd never heard the name Horatio Alger until liberals started throwing it at me. Same with Ayn Rand actually, never read her until liberals kept accusing me of being brainwashed by her, figured I should know what the fuss was about if people were going to keep making stupid assumptions.

Really? That is like if I did not know who Chomsky is. Actually, even worse, Horatio Alger is history 101. I am glad those intellectual liberals educated you.
A Libertarian that does not know who Ayn Rand was?! 8O


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My debate style is calm and deadly!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-230v_ecAcM


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06 Nov 2014, 12:47 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
The Democrats that stood with Obama won. (see Michigan)Those that ran away from his policies lost. Here in NC the dem (Hagan) during the debate was asked by her Republican opponent why she voted with Obama 95% of the time. She changed the subject. She should have asked what votes in particular he objected to, minimum wage? alternative energy?... etc
The secret of politics (and Republicans understand this) is never admit you are wrong, your opposition is always wrong.... The sheeple ( that are too simple to understand ambiguity ) will worship you. They do love a father figure!
Unfortunately, Democrats being more intellectual *than Republicans thrive on internal debate with all its ambiguity. Republicans believe in Reagan's statement, "never speak ill of a fellow Republican." As Will Rodgers said, "I do not belong to an organized political party. I am a Democrat!" :D
* I always laugh when Republicans claim that academia and journalists have a liberal bias. You would think they would want that kept quietThose most educated and whose job is thinking about such matters and those that spend their lives following and researching the news are liberal!


I remember how in Family Guy, when Lois ran against Mayor West, realizing the idiocy of much of the electorate during a debate, began answering each question with, "9/11," or "Osama Bin Laden is bad," which got her cheers and applause from the whole crowd.


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06 Nov 2014, 4:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
wittgenstein wrote:
The Democrats that stood with Obama won. (see Michigan)Those that ran away from his policies lost. Here in NC the dem (Hagan) during the debate was asked by her Republican opponent why she voted with Obama 95% of the time. She changed the subject. She should have asked what votes in particular he objected to, minimum wage? alternative energy?... etc
The secret of politics (and Republicans understand this) is never admit you are wrong, your opposition is always wrong.... The sheeple ( that are too simple to understand ambiguity ) will worship you. They do love a father figure!
Unfortunately, Democrats being more intellectual *than Republicans thrive on internal debate with all its ambiguity. Republicans believe in Reagan's statement, "never speak ill of a fellow Republican." As Will Rodgers said, "I do not belong to an organized political party. I am a Democrat!" :D
* I always laugh when Republicans claim that academia and journalists have a liberal bias. You would think they would want that kept quietThose most educated and whose job is thinking about such matters and those that spend their lives following and researching the news are liberal!


I remember how in Family Guy, when Lois ran against Mayor West, realizing the idiocy of much of the electorate during a debate, began answering each question with, "9/11," or "Osama Bin Laden is bad," which got her cheers and applause from the whole crowd.

that reminds me of that adlai Stevenson quote about how when he was told he had the votes of all thinking americans, he retorted with "but I need a majority."



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06 Nov 2014, 4:11 pm

wittgenstein wrote:
The Republicans hate Obamacare (based on Romneycare) because they put Obama's name on it, its the ACA. Interesting that most Americans hate Obamacare and yet agree with almost all its parts!

I'm beginning to think most americans don't really know what they want.