24 Oct 2016, 2:31 pm
AspergianMutantt wrote:
First off, if my god was pagan gods, does this mean I can put my gods before yours? Or even that of my gods before people? And if so, does this mean I can place my gods before your people as well? Or is this solely a Cristian thing where their god is the only right one and every one else's wrong?
Secondly: If god was all knowing and seeing and powerful and everything issued forth from god, wouldn't that mean everything is a part of god and that god IS everything? and anything created or existing within the universe is just an extension of said god?, and if so, wouldn't that mean were part god too? and if thats the case, then wouldn't we be a part of gods body and mind too? and if this be the case, then wouldn't god be not an individual within the universe but IS the universe its self? That being said, then isn't it possible that as we or god evolve's we and or god evolves too?, one a reflection of the other's evolution?
And lastly, Perhaps god is nothing but projections of our imaginations, our fears and hopes, our trying to make reason of things thats we can not comprehend or cope with? our fears of death and the unknowns? loss of loved ones we want to believe we will see again? feeling of inadequacy and inabilities to control our own world or fates and existences? the desire for justice and reason in a seemingly chaotic world full of madness as we evolve out of our primordial soup of life? Is god nothing but a projection of our selves? a mental illness?
Secondly: If god was all knowing and seeing and powerful and everything issued forth from god, wouldn't that mean everything is a part of god and that god IS everything? and anything created or existing within the universe is just an extension of said god?, and if so, wouldn't that mean were part god too? and if thats the case, then wouldn't we be a part of gods body and mind too? and if this be the case, then wouldn't god be not an individual within the universe but IS the universe its self? That being said, then isn't it possible that as we or god evolve's we and or god evolves too?, one a reflection of the other's evolution?
And lastly, Perhaps god is nothing but projections of our imaginations, our fears and hopes, our trying to make reason of things thats we can not comprehend or cope with? our fears of death and the unknowns? loss of loved ones we want to believe we will see again? feeling of inadequacy and inabilities to control our own world or fates and existences? the desire for justice and reason in a seemingly chaotic world full of madness as we evolve out of our primordial soup of life? Is god nothing but a projection of our selves? a mental illness?
Most supernatural Gods are, yes.
Not the real Gods though.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If I read you right, you are on your way to being rich.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Regards
DL
24 Oct 2016, 2:35 pm
24 Oct 2016, 2:37 pm
24 Oct 2016, 2:45 pm
24 Oct 2016, 2:48 pm
24 Oct 2016, 2:53 pm
24 Oct 2016, 3:04 pm
24 Oct 2016, 3:10 pm
24 Oct 2016, 3:16 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
drlaugh wrote:
Many good points.
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
Thanks.
To be sure, Marty was hardly perfect or godly. He drank way too much, he scalded his opponents with intemperate written abuse, and in his later years as his mental health followed his physical decline, he began writing indefensible Antisemitic trash that unfortunately was resurrected by the Third Reich, and by Antisemites today. Still, the Luther we Lutherans revere was the brave, defiant man of earlier years who came to understand he - and all of us - are saved not through placating an angry God, but through the sacrifice and grace of a loving God.
Yet he was against sacrifice of the Jesus type as well as the indulgences type.
To count on the immoral sacrifice of Jesus is to put an immoral condition between you and God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1YplwPzxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Regards
DL
24 Oct 2016, 3:22 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
24 Oct 2016, 6:18 pm
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
drlaugh wrote:
Many good points.
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
Thanks.
To be sure, Marty was hardly perfect or godly. He drank way too much, he scalded his opponents with intemperate written abuse, and in his later years as his mental health followed his physical decline, he began writing indefensible Antisemitic trash that unfortunately was resurrected by the Third Reich, and by Antisemites today. Still, the Luther we Lutherans revere was the brave, defiant man of earlier years who came to understand he - and all of us - are saved not through placating an angry God, but through the sacrifice and grace of a loving God.
Yet he was against sacrifice of the Jesus type as well as the indulgences type.
To count on the immoral sacrifice of Jesus is to put an immoral condition between you and God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1YplwPzxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Regards
DL
Well, if you, or that guy who made the second video, knew anything about Luther, you'd know he believed that God's grace was only possible through the sacrifice of Christ. In fact, the buying of indulgences was the complete opposite of Lutheran theology of universal atonement unearned by us.
Before quoting anymore scripture, you should remember that the Good Book warns us that the Devil can quote scripture perfectly.
24 Oct 2016, 6:35 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
drlaugh wrote:
Many good points.
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
Thanks.
To be sure, Marty was hardly perfect or godly. He drank way too much, he scalded his opponents with intemperate written abuse, and in his later years as his mental health followed his physical decline, he began writing indefensible Antisemitic trash that unfortunately was resurrected by the Third Reich, and by Antisemites today. Still, the Luther we Lutherans revere was the brave, defiant man of earlier years who came to understand he - and all of us - are saved not through placating an angry God, but through the sacrifice and grace of a loving God.
Yet he was against sacrifice of the Jesus type as well as the indulgences type.
To count on the immoral sacrifice of Jesus is to put an immoral condition between you and God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1YplwPzxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Regards
DL
Well, if you, or that guy who made the second video, knew anything about Luther, you'd know he believed that God's grace was only possible through the sacrifice of Christ. In fact, the buying of indulgences was the complete opposite of Lutheran theology of universal atonement unearned by us.
Before quoting anymore scripture, you should remember that the Good Book warns us that the Devil can quote scripture perfectly.
Sure but your bible also tells you to ---
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
So are you ready to test whether substitutionary atonement is moral or not?
I have a good argument of my own on this but let me skip to the bottom line to see if you agree with it or not.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
My proof is rather biblical but be careful as perhaps Satan wrote these.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
A sacrifice is synonymous with a ransom or bribe.
Psa 49 7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Regards
DL
24 Oct 2016, 7:11 pm
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Oct 2016, 2:55 am
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
drlaugh wrote:
Many good points.
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
A man I know little about (Luther , Martin not Lex) had a few things about the Church)
Thanks.
To be sure, Marty was hardly perfect or godly. He drank way too much, he scalded his opponents with intemperate written abuse, and in his later years as his mental health followed his physical decline, he began writing indefensible Antisemitic trash that unfortunately was resurrected by the Third Reich, and by Antisemites today. Still, the Luther we Lutherans revere was the brave, defiant man of earlier years who came to understand he - and all of us - are saved not through placating an angry God, but through the sacrifice and grace of a loving God.
Yet he was against sacrifice of the Jesus type as well as the indulgences type.
To count on the immoral sacrifice of Jesus is to put an immoral condition between you and God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P1YplwPzxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qnsTr7I04
Regards
DL
Well, if you, or that guy who made the second video, knew anything about Luther, you'd know he believed that God's grace was only possible through the sacrifice of Christ. In fact, the buying of indulgences was the complete opposite of Lutheran theology of universal atonement unearned by us.
Before quoting anymore scripture, you should remember that the Good Book warns us that the Devil can quote scripture perfectly.
Sure but your bible also tells you to ---
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
So are you ready to test whether substitutionary atonement is moral or not?
I have a good argument of my own on this but let me skip to the bottom line to see if you agree with it or not.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
My proof is rather biblical but be careful as perhaps Satan wrote these.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
A sacrifice is synonymous with a ransom or bribe.
Psa 49 7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Regards
DL
I think you just obstinately don't want to understand that God chose to become an innocent who suffered death for humankind. That's the difference between punishing some person innocent of wrongdoing when that person is resistant to being punished, and the voluntary choice Christ had made to be punished in our place.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
25 Oct 2016, 2:56 am
drlaugh wrote:
Quoting the Bible
Knowing right from wrong or
Singing the words of Gospel songs.....
Doesn't get this writer to heaven.
I am blessed with a wife - home that is God centered.
Currently present also my 90+ F. I. L.
Knowing right from wrong or
Singing the words of Gospel songs.....
Doesn't get this writer to heaven.
I am blessed with a wife - home that is God centered.
Currently present also my 90+ F. I. L.
25 Oct 2016, 10:17 am
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