Conservatism is my salvation from 'Neurotypical oppression'

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LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 11:05 am

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

I'm done. I don't think you're a sincere poster.

That's because you're new here.

Ask any regular here, and they will tell you I am dead serious about this issue.

SpreadsheetMaster
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18 Apr 2017, 11:12 am

But you're misrepresenting your opponents with insults and straw manning and ignoring points other people make, which makes it look like you don't have a counter to them. You may simply be intellectually inconsistent without realizing it, but I see little difference.

LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 11:15 am

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

It is very common here to see people who can't make arguments, resort to these kinds of comments.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 18 Apr 2017, 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

SpreadsheetMaster
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18 Apr 2017, 11:21 am

And now you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "I can't hear you!" There's no point in this.

LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 11:25 am

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

And now you're sticking your fingers in your ears and going "I can't hear you!" There's no point in this.

This topic is about the simple concept of "freedom from coersion". The government takes away your choices and coerces you into their choice.

It 's sooooo simple. No need for references to economics, externality, or 90% of the other stuff. It is so obvious and simple. No one in the real world has any disagreement that this is done.

Coersion, something I think ASD people might be sick of, and might have PTSD from.

LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 11:41 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

Coersion, something I think ASD people might be sick of, and might have PTSD from.

For me, when someone is overtly coercive me, I feel a pang of PTSD , and I have to catch myself that this is not like when I was younger. I feel instant hatred towards this person. I feel like I want to do violence towards this person. Those feelings stay with me for a few hours.

PTSD is common in ASD people , I speculate, because of the thousand+ "you are wrong/strange/odd/weird" coercive abuses.

Ignotum
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18 Apr 2017, 1:00 pm

Yep, you definitely sound like quite the anarchist to me. I don't think that's much of a problem though, I after all closely support the concept of anarcho-syndicalism, although I think you would be more of an anarcho-capitalist.

I'm really sorry by the way, I didn't mean to sound coercive or hateful. After all, just because I may disagree with you doesn't mean that I would ever want to do you any harm, and I'm sure that the other people on this thread feel the same.

Kraichgauer
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18 Apr 2017, 1:29 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

LoveNotHate wrote:

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

Yeah, I don't think OP gets that one person's rights end where another's rights begin.

That's the slavery argument.

Slave master: Don't you slaves get it? Without your labor, my livelihood would be infringed.

Yes, giving freedom to slaves impacts the slave master.

However, that's what freedom means.

You're sounding disingenuous again. Freedom from slavery isn't the same as freedom to active destroy other people's lives.

Freedom does mean people can "actively destroy other people's lives".

Think of "freedom of gun ownership". This permits people to shoot each other.

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

Polluting industries have costs on people not directly related to the business doing it. Putting taxes and restrictions on pollution puts the cost of their actions back on them instead of making other people suffer for actions they didn't carry out. That is freedom.

Taxes and restrictions are the opposite of freedom.

SpreadsheetMaster wrote:

What you are advocating sounds like "freedom for me, but not for you".

You are free to pollute just like the coal companies, so you have the same freedom.

Freedom DOES NOT mean you have the right to harm others. In fact, it's your argument that could be used to support slavery.

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naturalplastic
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18 Apr 2017, 1:42 pm

So...get rid of government, and allow murder?

Or what are you saying?

LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 3:17 pm

Ignotum wrote:

I wasn't speaking about you. :oops:

I mean in real life.

LoveNotHate
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18 Apr 2017, 3:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Freedom DOES NOT mean you have the right to harm others. In fact, it's your argument that could be used to support slavery.

I never said "you have the right to harm others".

I responded to the statement that "freedom means you can actively destroy lives".

That's precisely while liberals try to take away freedoms, because they argue, "you can actively destroy lives" (e.g. "gun control").

cberg
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18 Apr 2017, 3:24 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

The_Walrus wrote:

If the poor cannot afford healthcare, then they don't have a choice.

Right.

Yet, at least they're free from coercion, which is what this topic is about.

We see this in US health care where the left wing Democrats mandated that people buy health insurance, while the conservatives fight for freedom from the very unpopular mandate.

To be clear what more or less anybody wanted was mandatorily provided healthcare as opposed to a hyper-incentivized private maze, hence my belief we're just looking at those red & blue trendlines too often when we should be considering if we fit anywhere therein.

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cberg
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18 Apr 2017, 3:29 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Freedom DOES NOT mean you have the right to harm others. In fact, it's your argument that could be used to support slavery.

OK that's damn right I'm for gun control, it doesn't take long watching news to see I know plenty more about guns & range safety than the lowest common denominator conservative. I learned it in scouts & so I wouldn't ever own a gun barring some very immediate need. I know & support the constitution so it's clear to me when violent people are stretching it.

I mean geez would folks please stop talking about guns as if they're staplers or iPhones or something?

DinoMongoosePenguin
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18 Apr 2017, 5:11 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

Like many of you, I have lived my life under constant neurotypical oppression.

My oppressors told me, "You don't go out enough", "You spend too much time on your computer", "You don't socialize enough", "You shouldn't do that", "You shouldn't act that way", "You should say 'hi' to people in the morning", "You shouldn't dress that way, "Don't do that", "You're not doing it right", "You should make friends" .....

Even worse, my oppressors abused and humiliated me, because I didn't do things in their perceived "correct way".

The message was clear: I am wrong.

Then along comes conservatism.

Conservatives say things like, "You don't need a government master to tell you how to live your life".

Wow! What a powerful message to an oppressed person.

So, that's why I despise lefties, government control, socialism, and why I'm enamored with conservatism.

Me too!

DinoMongoosePenguin
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18 Apr 2017, 5:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I mean where is the hiring agency to pick up homeless and impoverished people off the streets and get them a sustainable job they can keep? And working with them on hygiene and basic resources till they can actually start making their own income and improving their situation.

Conservatives want to make people productive but not lift a finger to do it? Instead just hope if they cut things far enough desperation will become productiveness?

And liberals want to help people but want someone else (the taxpayers) to pay for it.

Ignotum
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18 Apr 2017, 6:07 pm

DinoMongoosePenguin wrote:

And liberals want to help people but want someone else (the taxpayers) to pay for it.

And I dare you to find a healthy society that has no tax system. From the ancient Persians and Romans to all modern nations today, taxes are simply a necessity. I myself would gladly accept double the amount of taxes we have currently if I knew it would help get humans to Mars, fix this nations broken infrastructure, and go towards free medicare and college tuition for all. Although, of course, the answer isn't to introduce heavier taxes to middle class people such as myself, but instead tax the absolute living f*** out of the rich who are already saving billions for themselves through tax loopholes, then spend that money to introduce programs that would help the poor and minimize the ridiculous economic inequality we see in the U.S. today.

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