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Fnord
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11 Feb 2021, 11:52 am

Anything posted in The Daily Mail is simply not worth reading; hence, an argument based on an article posted in The Daily Mail is inherently insupportable and also not worth reading.


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slam_thunderhide
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11 Feb 2021, 12:12 pm

Fnord wrote:
Anything posted in The Daily Mail is simply not worth reading; hence, any arguments based on an article posted in The Daily Mail is insupportable and also not worth reading.


Ok, so that's an admission that you didn't read the article that you were supposed to be responding about. I'm sure that's not the first time either.

If you are going to gainsay claims without reading the arguments behind them, at least you can try paying enough attention to what those actual claims are.



kraftiekortie
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11 Feb 2021, 12:16 pm

The French feel threatened by anything they perceive as threatening Gallic culture.



Fnord
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11 Feb 2021, 12:16 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Anything posted in The Daily Mail is simply not worth reading; hence, any arguments based on an article posted in The Daily Mail is insupportable and also not worth reading.
Ok, so that's an admission that you didn't read the article that you were supposed to be responding about. I'm sure that's not the first time either. If you are going to gainsay claims without reading the arguments behind them, at least you can try paying enough attention to what those actual claims are.
You are wrong again.  I read the article, confirmed that it was typical trash from The Daily Mail, and then dismissed it as not worth reading.  What ... did you think that reading the article would inspire me to think otherwise?  Many proselytes think that way about their religious tracts.


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11 Feb 2021, 1:20 pm

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
and then proceeded to claim that MAGA rioters were being treated like Jews and she posted a now deleted tweet with an distasteful image of a woman in a concentration camp.

Interesting misrepresentation... She tweeted about how dehumanising a group (as an example, lumping anyone right-wing\conservative\etc. under a given title (let's say, MAGA), then proceeding to encourage hatred and endorsing the use of vitriolic statements about them as a collective group) can lead to violence against them, and where that (in a worst case) can lead to.



50 years ago, the left of politics had a heart.
These days, they have a fist.



Fnord
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11 Feb 2021, 1:31 pm

50 years ago, the Left was weak
These days, they have found their strength.


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Pepe
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11 Feb 2021, 1:31 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:

uncommondenominator wrote:
Also who knew that America had such laser precise social control, to be able to target exclusively France, and no other nation, from across the atlantic. Must be those jewish space lasers. Better buy stock in aluminium foil before all the Lizard People eat enough babies to go super socialist saiyan and force everyone to become tri-gendered decasexual pan-sapio-mantic clone armies or whatever :roll:


Modern American culture is vastly influential throughout the West. This isn’t even controversial. And nobody’s claiming it only affects France. The article was merely focusing on a specific reaction to modern Americanism that has taken place in France.

As for space lasers … well, we have these things called television and the internet that help American cultural influences rapidly spread to other countries. This isn’t the 1800s anymore.

Maybe you should stop and think about what you’re saying before directing such overblown sarcasm at others.


Indeed.



Pepe
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11 Feb 2021, 1:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
50 years ago, the Left was weak
These days, they have found their strength.


Violence is strength.
Compassion is weakness.

That sounds like 'Ingsoc' propaganda, to me. 8O



Pepe
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11 Feb 2021, 1:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
Anything posted in The Daily Mail is simply not worth reading; hence, an argument based on an article posted in The Daily Mail is inherently insupportable and also not worth reading.


People have ideas outside of "The Daily Mail".
'Cancel Culture' is a cancer on society.
That's the fact, Jack!



Pepe
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11 Feb 2021, 1:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The French feel threatened by anything they perceive as threatening Gallic culture.


But they *luv* Garlic cuisine. :mrgreen:



Jiheisho
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11 Feb 2021, 1:43 pm

As far as I can figure out intolerance and bullying is not a province of a particular point on the ideological spectrum. Nor is it a new problem. I find it fascinating people don't understand that.



kraftiekortie
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11 Feb 2021, 2:51 pm

Not that it matters.....but Macron did marry someone who is 15-20 years his senior. He's not exactly a paragon of conservatism in that regard.

I wonder what Macron actually thinks about the Daily Mail article.

I wonder if Macron truly feels resentful about the loss of French West Africa in the 1960s.



Pepe
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11 Feb 2021, 3:14 pm

Jiheisho wrote:
As far as I can figure out intolerance and bullying is not a province of a particular point on the ideological spectrum. Nor is it a new problem. I find it fascinating people don't understand that.


I have *always* said there are a$$holes on *both* sides of the political divide.
Unfortunately, most on the left deny they have bad elements in their ranks.
Strange political myopia.



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11 Feb 2021, 3:28 pm

Related: Macron himself called up the NYT to box them and the entire Anglo world around the ears a few months ago, for a certain breed of wokeness.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/15/busi ... islam.html

The president has some bones to pick with the American media: about our “bias,” our obsession with racism, our views on terrorism, our reluctance to express solidarity, even for a moment, with his embattled republic.

So President Emmanuel Macron of France called me on Thursday afternoon from his gilded office in the Élysée Palace to drive home a complaint. He argued that the Anglo-American press, as it’s often referred to in his country, has blamed France instead of those who committed a spate of murderous terrorist attacks that began with the beheading on Oct. 16 of a teacher, Samuel Paty, who, in a lesson on free speech, had shown his class cartoons from the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo mocking the Prophet Muhammad.

“When France was attacked five years ago, every nation in the world supported us,” President Macron said, recalling Nov. 13, 2015, when 130 people were killed in coordinated attacks at a concert hall, outside a soccer stadium and in cafes in and around Paris.

“So when I see, in that context, several newspapers which I believe are from countries that share our values — journalists who write in a country that is the heir to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution — when I see them legitimizing this violence, and saying that the heart of the problem is that France is racist and Islamophobic, then I say the founding principles have been lost.”


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old_comedywriter
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11 Feb 2021, 3:51 pm

The biggest threat to France is...wait for it...wait for it...

Do I even have to say this? It should be obvious...

France.


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The_Walrus
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11 Feb 2021, 3:56 pm

Fnord wrote:
More tabloid nonsense.  Since when has Socialism of any kind ever been a "threat" to France?

France genuinely has a huge issue with socialism. It is very heavily unionised with a large and powerful public sector. Every attempt at pension reform, for example, leads to huge strikes that shut down the transport system. The previous president, Francois Hollande, set the top rate of income tax at 75%. Their agricultural sector is hugely propped up by the state to the extent that it warps the global market.

France doesn’t have an issue with “wokeism”. It’s a country that has a few areas where it is better than Anglophone countries (it has very close ties to Francophone Africa for example), but generally on issues of race and religion it is a long way behind. Unfortunately parties right across the spectrum are socially conservative.

I was optimistic about Macron at first but he’s been prevented from making the necessary public sector reforms and he’s been mostly bad on social issues. The only real advantages about him are that he’s much much better than Le Pen or Melenchon, and he really annoyed Trump. But genuinely feel like Merkel (an actual conservative) is more of a leader on social issues and better for European unity.