Is being gay wrong?

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Sean, this is not a personal attack. I rather admire the way you stand up for what you believe, and argue your points intelligently. However this is mainly in response to your statements.

It frustrates me to no end that people are able to justify saying that something is right or wrong, based on what is said in the bible, or rather based on one or two instances in which a person or group was "punished by God"
Wouldn't the circumstances be slightly different in each scenario?
How can we be sure just what was being punished?
If we accept a God that is spirit, and particularly the spirit of unconditional love, then how can we condemn someone based solely on their actions. Would not their spirit be the deciding factor.

I think one misconception is that homosexuality is all about sex.
I am certainly attracted to females for at least a few reasons other than compatible body parts.

In addition, men and women use their sexuality for more than just procreation or satisfaction of lust. It is a way to bond, and express love isn't it?
Why should I assume that homosexuals are any different, just because they can not procreate? Is it on par with the catholic church's anti-contraceptive stance?

Exactly. Homosexualality is not all about sex. It's about how they love. Sean, if someone asked you "could you fall in love with a man?" you would say no, right? A gay man is incapable of falling in love with a woman. A gay woman is incapable of falling in love with a man.

It's really not about sex. Sex is simply how they express their love.

You are exactly right, nayashi and spacemonkey. My mum's best friend is gay. He hates sex. He just wants a companion...a male companion.

An asexual homosexual??? That sounds like a paradox, maybe even an oxymoron!

He loves men romantically, he just doesn't want to 'do it' with anybody. Do you think it is possible to be an asexual heterosexual? A person who doesn't like sex can be in love with someone, can't they?

I think the reason few gay people are interested in debating the merits of homosexuality with straight people is because:
1) The debate has been going on in public for decades and there's not much left to be said. The science has been explained and the biblical references used to suggest that "God hates fags" have been thoroughly debunked (generally by showing how selectively the scripture is applied). When science and rhetoric loses to dogma and invective then there's little point in further discussion.
2) For the straight people, debates about homosexuality are a minor diversion. When you get tired of the debate you'll go find some other minority to oppress and your brethren will step in to pick up where you left off. For those of us who live in the queer world, opression is systematic and constant. If we were to engage in debate with every bigot who called us names and tried to take away our humanity then we would have no time left for anything else. Some debates are worth our time and some aren't.

(I'm glad I found a worthy topic for post # 500!)

One more point: If I waste my time defending my right to be queer, that's a tacit acknowledgement that I need your approval. Approval may be important to the teenager who's just coming to terms with his/her sexual orientation and is still immersed in a culture of peer pressure, but with maturity comes the realization that lasting self-worth comes from within.

jetson - best post on this thread so far. fabulous!

i think i prefer your "systemic" to "institutionalised", which is a word often used, but yours is better.

read your point 2, and thought, "YES!! THAT's what i feel like about sexism." (not trying to hijack, incidentally - just how i perceive most of the "isms" to be - and i'm not black or gay, ot THAT old (etc.), so i can only speak from the "sexism" point of view). it's that feeling of "here we go again..."

An inspiring thought for any Aspie!

Jetson--you are wonderful.

Perhaps we gay people with Asperger's Syndrome could form a sub-group where we could discuss what it is like to grow up being gay and having Asperger's Syndrome? I did not choose to be gay or to have Asperger's Syndrome - I was born that way. I was brought up on a farm in rural New Zealand by conservative parents who still do not know I am gay - I am living in exile in our capital city. I find it really difficult to have to live a lie all the time, and can't discuss most of my life with my family. I have been in a relationship for nine years with a very supportive partner, but we do not live together for obvious reasons. We just want the same human rights as everybody else in society, to be able to live a safe, happy life without being subjected to harrassment or abuse...

Victims and faux victims and wanna-be's. Is that all there is?

I find the notion that homosexuals are universally victims and worse off than others absurd and self serving. If you look at statistics on income it's a false notion. But I can understand why people use it.

And you have every right to feel that way. It might be a good idea to create a sub-group for that. I would be more than happy to help if you want to start one

A simple google search would tell you that there already are such groups. Why you need to pretend otherwise is beyond me.

I am not pretending. I have just never seen a group for people who are gay AND have Asperger's Syndrome.

oh ok. I just thought it was obvious, being on the net for a while now the same issues come up all the time and gay/AS groups were formed a long time ago.