Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?

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This is one of the cases when one is absolutely sure about something, following a belief system whithout question anything, which inside the doctrine, questioning becomes an offense within that belief system.

And that "truth" being a group of ideas, thoughts, dogmas and doctrine that differ from others.

Johnny Cash did a song called 'What Is Truth' back in 1970. And I guess Dylan had the perfect reply albeit some 8 years earlier when he said 'the answer my friend is blowin in the wind; the answer is blowin in the wind'.

I like the man, not sure about calling himself god though, bad career move. Reached too far maybe.

But he never actually called himself god or son of god either. It was his dopey followers and offsiders who corrupted the message.

You are correct, the above passage doesn't qualify who. However that is not to say that there are no verses which list limitations and qualifications:

Matthew 5:17-20 KJV
(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Romans 1:18-32 GNB
(18) God's anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known.
(19) God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain.
(20) Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!
(21) They know God, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness.
(22) They say they are wise, but they are fools;
(23) instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortals or birds or animals or reptiles.
(24) And so God has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other.
(25) They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen.
(26) Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts.
(27) In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
(28) Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do.
(29) They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip
(30) and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents;
(31) they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others.
(32) They know that God's law says that people who live in this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these very things, but they even approve of others who do them.



1 Corinthians 6:9-10 GNB
(9) Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts
(10) or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves---none of these will possess God's Kingdom.


Galatians 5:19-21 GNB
(19) What human nature does is quite plain. It shows itself in immoral, filthy, and indecent actions;
(20) in worship of idols and witchcraft. People become enemies and they fight; they become jealous, angry, and ambitious. They separate into parties and groups;
(21) they are envious, get drunk, have orgies, and do other things like these. I warn you now as I have before: those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God.


2 Peter 2:12-14 GNB
(12) But these people act by instinct, like wild animals born to be captured and killed; they attack with insults anything they do not understand. They will be destroyed like wild animals,
(13) and they will be paid with suffering for the suffering they have caused. Pleasure for them is to do anything in broad daylight that will satisfy their bodily appetites; they are a shame and a disgrace as they join you in your meals, all the while enjoying their deceitful ways!
(14) They want to look for nothing but the chance to commit adultery; their appetite for sin is never satisfied. They lead weak people into a trap. Their hearts are trained to be greedy. They are under God's curse!



My devotion today dealt with God's abundant grace,

November 21,

Sin Abounding, Grace Abounding "Much More"
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom_5:20-21)
Sin can overflow lives until there seems to be no hope. Yet, the scriptures boldly declare that the grace of God is greater than the most terrible, aggravated sin of man. Yes, even when sin is abounding, grace can eventually abound "much more."
The Lord uses His law to teach us of sin and of our need for His grace. "Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound." The law provokes the rebellious hearts of man, revealing the desires of sin within them. "For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death . . . I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, 'You shall not covet' " (Rom_7:5, Rom_7:7). Also, the law of God convinces us of the awful nature of sin: "that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful" (Rom_7:13). Part of the awful impact of sin is the death it produces in lives: "sin reigned in death." Sin brings spiritual death. "The wages of sin is death" (Rom_6:23). Where sin is left unattended it rules lives by bringing more and more evidences of this spiritual deadness: such as; hatred, selfishness, cruelty, emptiness, despair, and the like. It is as though great waves of sin roll over lives, inundating them in bondage and hopelessness. Nevertheless, there is always hope in the grace of God. "But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more." No matter how high the waves of sin have flooded in, the waves of God's grace can roll in higher, if we humbly seek after Him.
The grace of God is not only able to forgive sin and cleanse it away, it can also set up a new rule of godliness in forgiven lives. "As sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness." Sin once ruled our lives, bringing spiritual deadness, which increased with each day. Now, if grace is allowed to work in our lives, practical righteousness grows day by day: such as; love, selflessness, kindness, fullness, hope, and the like. All of this is the qualitative aspect of the everlasting life that comes by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ: "even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Hoekstra.


However, should God's grace be an excuse to sin? God forbid!

Romans 6:1-16 KJV
(1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
(5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
(9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
(10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
(11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
(13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
(14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
(16) Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Are there then no qualifications or limitations for people who claim to be saved?

Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 21 Nov 2007, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

John 17:1-26 KJV
(1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
(2) As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
(3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
(5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
(6) I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
(7) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
(8) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
(9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
(10) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
(11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
(13) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
(14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
(16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
(18) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
(19) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
(20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(24) Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
(25) O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
(26) And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Mark 1:9-11 KJV
(9) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
(10) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
(11) And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 3:13-17 KJV
(13) Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
(14) But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(15) And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
(16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
(17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
(18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So, is iamnotaparakeet on his way to Heaven?

by and by...

they took the scenic route

Doesn't this mean that Mosaic law is still in effect, and that most Christians err grievously by not following the Sabbath on Saturday, by eating pork and shellfish, by wearing clothing that blends fibers like cotton and linen, or by eating cheeseburgers (since mixing meat and dairy are prohibited by the law)? Aren't Christian farmers doomed because they don't let their fields lie fallow one of every seven years?

paratwit, you continue to astound me with the total lack of ability you have to argue something without resorting to pages and pages of waffle about scripture and other such ramblings. Christians from all walks of life referred to their Lord as 'father' when they pray, so just because Jesus the man did the same thing does NOT make him borne of a spiritual nature. I could do the same thing as you by quoting from that book as well, and it would still come out as drivel. I'd much prefer to quote volumes of 'War and Peace' by Tolstoy because at least that is able to be understood and read a lot easier than a book which some people can't even understand after reading it for 40 years (even though they claim to have read it over and over again. so in future, I would prefer it if you are to answer any of my posts that you do so without quoting from a book which I have no intention of picking up let alone reading, and also if you would refrain from bombastically denouncing my beliefs just because they don't concur with yours. Maybe if your parents had have bought you some textbooks for your home-schooling instead of the Gideon that you keep rehashing ad naseum here, then you might have learnt something. If you are unable to use anything but your book of folklore in your argument, then I'm afraid the argument will be a lost cause, and I shall declare myself having won.

Cheeseburgers are okay. You're just not supposed to cook a calf in its mother's milk. When you are eating a cheeseburger, you actually aren't cooking a calf in its mother's milk. You are just eating its flesh with some cheese melted on top. Cheese, not milk. The milk from which the cheese was made might have come from the animal's mother, but it is unlikely. Jews have been misinterpreting this ever since cheeseburgers were invented.

Also, there really isn't any implication in the Mosaic law that not following these instructions would doom someone to Hell. Going to Heaven or Hell was not a big concern of the Old Testament. The Old Testament has more of a dust-to-dust outlook. It was more a concern that the living descendents would be punished, for example, by being led into slavery in Babylon.

And for what reason can we cry "Abba, Father." ?

'Dad, get me a copy of ABBA Gold!' when he asked what you wanted for Xmas.

Romans 8:12-17 KJV
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
(16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
(17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 4:4-6 KJV
(4) But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
(5) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
(6) And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Improper form.

Correct form:

Rule: "No Christians are allowed to kill the innocent."
Reply: "Such and such, who claims to be a Christian, is a murderer."
Rebuttal: "Such and such's claim is false."

Or

Rule: "No employees are allowed to steal."
Reply: "I'm an employee and I've stolen."
Rebuttal: "You're fired."