Does anyone else agree with feminism?

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... n-research
^not directly relevant, but interesting.

Begging the question are we? You are assuming that women don't have the same amount of responsibility right now. What exactly are you providing as evidence? Oh...

That's right.


Filed under "Images posted by guys who insist aren't misogynists."

1. I don't actually support positive discrimination, that's a sticking plaster over the wider problem.
2. I always split the bill and sometimes pay outright.
3. What hyper said.
4. Condoms are free in my country, just not the nicer ones. If you pay tax money for BC pills as well as condoms, you're actually saving yourself tax money in the long term (think about it).
5. I'm as outraged by men being expected to fight in wars as you are, it has the same source.
6. I don't like that state of affairs, but I believe there are many other problems with criminal justice. The fact that women get more lenient sentences is not the result of a conspiracy by feminists/ It's the result of the systems which we are fighting. I don't agree with the death penalty. anyway.

one would think that an evo-psych advocate would be just thrilled with the disproportionately high incarceration rate of males, since it means less competition for the males who remain at large.

Also, guys? If you're going to mention disproportionate incarceration rates, how come you never mention that 1 in 9 black men of prime reproductive age is in prison? Also that the rate of incarceration for black women is similar to that of white men.
'Oh,' I can hear you thinking now, 'but those people deserve it.'

You DO know that posting facts about yourself does not change the way that the (Western) female population at large behaves, right?


Wow, whaddya know! Non-feminists can be sarcastic and antagonistic too.
Oh wait, now I'm a racist... *facepalm*

1. Unqualified categorical syllogisms (and let's be honest- people obsessed with gender roles seem to love these)
are invalid if there is a single exception.

2. We haven't seen any statistics on how "the" (~snort~) "Western female population" behaves, actually.
Care to share any?

Like you. Sarcastic and uncivilised.

I am aware of that, but I disagree with those assertions that that is the way that the female population behaves at large. I don't have anything to come back with on something like 'women don't split the bill', except to say that I do and every woman I know does.

Also, some of the assertions were about what feminists believe; I think stating my own opinions as a feminist is relevant.

Ah, the seething rage of anti-feminist vitriol continues to flow.
Good job- I thought it was dead in this thread. Thanks for ducking in to contribute.

I'll wait, on those statistics on "the" Western female.

There's nothing uncivilised about the way VW posts, though I won't deny that she's sarcastic. There are other combative debaters on PPR, but she seems to be singled out. Wonder why that is?

Actually, while true, the above fact is not relevant to the point directly (although it does affect how people treat people who behave this way) so I will restate some of my prior points.

If you'd like to see examples of how the stereotypical Western female behaves, just turn on your television. I defy you to find one sitcom where the male main character is not dominated by the female one in terms of her rolling her eyes and decrying how usless and unintelligent he is, in terms of her slapping him in the face when he says something she doesn't like, in terms of her declaring he will now sleep on the couch for some offense, in terms of her commenting something about how he will never touch her again if he doesn't do something she wants him to do. The stereotypical female expects chivalry and men to pay for dates, make more money than her, and supply her shopping needs.

Just because you (or I) are not like that, does not mean that many females behave this way. Granted, sitcoms tend to be an exaggerated mockery of truth, but I can tell you that I have personally witnessed examples of all of the above in real life as well. One person, or a hanful of people, or even a thousand people out of a million do not falsify a stereotype when most of the people in that category DO indeed fit it. If one person falsifies the category, then no one can claim that men opress women because there are certianly at least a handful who do not.

I personally believe that the genders in Western society are currently fairly evenly matched with some various types of discrimination on each side. As long as people see things in terms of gender, there will never be true equality. Feminists are prime examples of people who do the former.

I believe in equality but would never call myself a feminist if for no other reason that I believe it to be a misnomer. Although I do have other reasons.



Would you like to revoke my vagina license now?

Last edited by myth on 03 Apr 2012, 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

I find her to be unnecessarily antagonistic to the point where I am of the opinion that someone else would have been spoken to by the mods by now.

I stepped in to defend the unprovoked, relentless, and meaningless attacks of some valid points since such actions offend my sensibilities. Ad hominem attacks and bitter sarcasm do little to convince anyone to see your point of view, fyi. That being said, it is clear there is no actual discussion taking place on this thread any more.

...are you serious? I really want to know.
You learn about cultural norms from TELEVISION?
You refer to "the stereotypical female". It is YOU doing the stereotyping. And stereotypical isn't TYPICAL.
Let's cut the bullsh!t. The vast majority of American women work. Hard. Sometimes three jobs. Many times to support children which men have abandoned.

It is only you, though, who makes assertions that "MANY" do act this way, and extrapolate it onto AMERICAN WOMEN AS A CLASS.

I've "personally witnessed" a bunch of sh!t too. What has that to do with anything?

You haven't provided evidence that "most" people fit it, other than "I sez so".

No one HAS claimed men as a class oppress women as a class. I dare you to find where such has been said.

You can't escape definition.

SARCASM DETECTED!! ! SPEAKER IS NOT CIVILIZED.


DISENGAGING.. . . . .

Sitcom women are so far out of my experience of what people are actually like, that I assumed that they were a complete fantasy.

In the real world, a lot of couples have equal relationships, but a lot have abusive ones. Most of the abusive ones I've seen have the man as the abuser. I don't hate men for that. Even 'strong women' can end up in abusive relationships because the issue is not just of personal abuse, it's a cultural/political issue. There is a pattern. You don't have to go very far back in the history of Western civilisation to see when it was more blatant. You only have to look at other cultures to see where it is still blatant.

All I can say is that from my observations, patriarchy definitely exists. You disagree. We can chuck statistics and sarcasm at each other all day, but it won't change a thing.

Could you give me a specific example of her breaking the rules? Bear in mind the culture of PPR, and that we tend to be more lenient here.

I'm a mod btw, I just don't have a badge under my name.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 03 Apr 2012, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Myth, do you think women in porn are sexually normative?

Just wondering.