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Do you believe God exists?
1) God is a being, that one can have a personal relationship. A person God. 29%  29%  [ 55 ]
2) God is an impersonal force that guides reality as it is. He decrees our laws of physics, but does not intervene to break them. 12%  12%  [ 22 ]
3) God does not exist. Reality can be explained by scientific inquiry and the scientific method in by itself. 33%  33%  [ 62 ]
4) I am not sure. There is the possibility that God does exist, or does not. We must follow the preponderance of evidence when drawing our conclusion. 26%  26%  [ 48 ]
Total votes : 187

Deltaville
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30 Apr 2016, 10:16 am

AspE wrote:
CryingTears15 wrote:
I'm asking why God made physics the way He did in the first place. It's a fairly complex system for doing something he could have made much easier even if he wanted matter to reconfigure on its own.

He could have had one speck of dust grow into a planet. Boom. He can create matter, so where the extra information comes from wouldn't be a problem.

Are you sure it could be simpler? It's possible you could describe it all with one simple equation, which we haven't discovered yet.


No that is not possible due to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. The closest we have to an equation that represents 'everything' is the WDW, which suffers tremendously to chronological issues.

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CryingTears15
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30 Apr 2016, 3:18 pm

Ultimately, my reasoning is that yes, it is impossible for something to come from nothing, but God is also something. This may seem like a basic question, but who created God?

Occam's razor dictates the simplest explanation is the best. I either believe that an impartial universe sprang from nothing, or God sprang from nothing and then created the universe. I know the universe exists. God is the step in-between, and the unnecessary one. In the end, something still came from nothing.

That being said, I wonder if existence would most likely be very simple in and of itself if it randomly occurred. Why would it be so complex, when it much more likely could consist of something much more basic? I believe that there is most likely something beyond just "this" universe, whether a God, or another set of realities that are at some points simpler than this one. With numerous realities, it makes sense that some would be more complex than others.



drlaugh
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30 Apr 2016, 5:26 pm

It was not Popeyes that first said I am.

The question is one I never considered. Well for while I did at a younger age. I was reading the Marvel "Beyonder" series at the time.

G = C

God didn't come from nothing

me Still too old to know it all


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TudorGothicSerpent
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01 May 2016, 3:54 am

CryingTears15 wrote:
AspE wrote:
CryingTears15 wrote:
...Why would God create such a convoluted system?

Physics?


I'm asking why God made physics the way He did in the first place. It's a fairly complex system for doing something he could have made much easier even if he wanted matter to reconfigure on its own.

He could have had one speck of dust grow into a planet. Boom. He can create matter, so where the extra information comes from wouldn't be a problem.


If there's any sort of deity out there, it's probably a pretty incomprehensible being rather than being even borderline anthropomorphic (like the deities in most religions). There's no particular reason to assume that it would care much about simplicity.



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01 May 2016, 8:16 am

Keep asking questions.

I ask them of others and of God.
Jesus became human for a short time (compared to eternity)

God is not human.
G = G


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AspE
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01 May 2016, 11:16 am

Deltaville wrote:

No that is not possible due to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. The closest we have to an equation that represents 'everything' is the WDW, which suffers tremendously to chronological issues.


You couldn't derive the exact outcome of course, the state of the universe as it exists now with life and everything, but nothing rules out the possibility of a ToE.



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01 May 2016, 12:05 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMBCTpsvH0

I like what Dr. Marcello Gleiser has to say here about the ToE.


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01 May 2016, 12:16 pm

Given all the scientific evidence and that we're supposed to be above average intelligence , I find it a tad worrying that more people in here believe in God than the ones that don't believe in God .

Come on people, it was clearly created thousands of years ago - just to CONTROL the less educated masses .



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01 May 2016, 12:30 pm

To hear you say that saddens me as well ;-/


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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01 May 2016, 12:33 pm

Have you read the entire thread?


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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01 May 2016, 1:12 pm

I'm one that believes in God
I'm also one that chooses not to take the time to watch all videos and read each word.
I skim even faster than my usual skim reading.

Calling God God and writing it is much easier than other options.
I'm glad that others find this thread a good outlet.
I spend time in nature
With and helping my wife and her 95 year old dad.
.. playing ukulele and harmonica
..naps... working full time... helping others and asking for help from God and "angels with skin aka humans. "
I don't know if we are smarter. Years ago I tested in the upper iq and yet do stupid stuff from time to time. One is trying to convince folks I'm smart and they should believe as I do.
God is not the "judo Christian" God of my youth. SIC on purpose.

Being an atheist is having a God of your understanding.

Love and prayers for those into those things.


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01 May 2016, 1:22 pm

If anything, one could glean from this thread that there are intelligent people on both sides... and that the issue at hand is far deeper and mysterious than would permit one side to declare the other irrational or unintelligent. Given The historical fact that there are geniuses on both sides of this ontological dichotomy, we should be respectful of the unique "knowledge constructs" each person has assimilated through their own experience. If you want to suggest that intelligent, rational people ought to reject their confidence in the existence of God then you need to make explicit why that is the case. I think you will see that this thread has been an exploration of that very topic. To enter into a discussion such as this with a remark of that nature is almost undeserving of the dignity of a reply, but, for the sake of correcting a widespread prejudice, I feel compelled to rebuke such utterances.


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01 May 2016, 1:33 pm

We don't really have enough evidence at this time to ascertain whether a god, or multiple gods exist or not, or if our "gods" have simply been extraterrestrial life forms, or if reality as we know it isn't just some computer simulation.


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CryingTears15
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01 May 2016, 1:43 pm

Zizu58 wrote:
Given all the scientific evidence and that we're supposed to be above average intelligence , I find it a tad worrying that more people in here believe in God than the ones that don't believe in God .

Come on people, it was clearly created thousands of years ago - just to CONTROL the less educated masses .


1. We're not all that smart here, let's not set too high standards. ;)

2. It's intrinsic in the human brain, a la the revelations of neuroscience, that humans want to believe in a higher power... If it truly makes one unfulfilled to think there is no one out there, why not believe? At worst, you'll be wrong when you die, but won't notice.

3. Psychological principle cognitive dissonance states that if we act out ideas, we come to believe them... This is why to have a fulfilling spiritual life, many naturally need organized religion to give them rites and rituals which then strengthen the belief they are programmed to have... In addition, it gives them a sense of deep connection to others they cannot as easily experience otherwise.

4. People have long questioned their religions and used them to self-advocate or advocate for equality, (ex. abolition, some missionary work, Sikh principles for example speak of religious freedom and gender equality.)

In conclusion, while I admit religion may be fake, it serves a vital purpose and I will defend the religious at all costs while explaining my own doubts...



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01 May 2016, 1:51 pm

Good
Orderly
Direction


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TudorGothicSerpent
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01 May 2016, 2:20 pm

Zizu58 wrote:
Given all the scientific evidence and that we're supposed to be above average intelligence , I find it a tad worrying that more people in here believe in God than the ones that don't believe in God .


We're not really supposed to be above average necessarily, even if you're talking solely about people who were or would have been diagnosed with AS before the DSM-V. It's average intelligence or above, which is a pretty broad range. Some of us are also on parts of the spectrum that include some degree of intellectual impairment. This is a "big tent" sort of website.

Beyond that, though, that doesn't mean much as to whether someone believes in a god. It would be incredibly naive to say that it doesn't matter, since religiosity and IQ are negatively correlated, but that really only applies when you're talking about the situation on a population level. On an individual level, personal factors (like family background, personality, etc.) matter more.

Quote:
Come on people, it was clearly created thousands of years ago - just to CONTROL the less educated masses .


Belief in divine beings is probably a natural human tendency that results from the way our brains are wired up. I would expect fewer people here to be religious than in the general population because of agency detection and theory of mind deficits, honestly, before I would suspect it based on intelligence.