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Wombat
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17 Nov 2010, 1:18 am

Ruveyn and others:

We have no idea what gravity is. For that matter we don't know what a photon is or a "magnetic field".

My high school teacher used to do the magnet and iron filings trick to show "magnetic lines of force".
I asked WHAT IS A MAGNETIC LINE OF FORCE?
She couldn't tell me.

I said "what if I had a super microscope that could see atoms? Could I see the lines of force?"
She had no answer.

"Time" is different on the surface of the earth than a satellite in orbit.

As for a "Photon", is it a wave or a particle or both? If it is a particle then why can it go through six feet of clear glass but be stopped by a piece of carbon paper?

Why can a single photon shot at a diffraction grid go through not one but SEVERAL slits at the same time?

The fact is that we know tiddly-squat about physics.

We can make computers and jet aircraft but we don't really understand the basic underlying laws, just as our caveman ancestors could use fire without knowing what it was.



iamnotaparakeet
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17 Nov 2010, 1:34 am

Wombat wrote:
Ruveyn and others:

We have no idea what gravity is. For that matter we don't know what a photon is or a "magnetic field".

My high school teacher used to do the magnet and iron filings trick to show "magnetic lines of force".
I asked WHAT IS A MAGNETIC LINE OF FORCE?
She couldn't tell me.

I said "what if I had a super microscope that could see atoms? Could I see the lines of force?"
She had no answer.

"Time" is different on the surface of the earth than a satellite in orbit.

As for a "Photon", is it a wave or a particle or both? If it is a particle then why can it go through six feet of clear glass but be stopped by a piece of carbon paper?

Why can a single photon shot at a diffraction grid go through not one but SEVERAL slits at the same time?

The fact is that we know tiddly-squat about physics.

We can make computers and jet aircraft but we don't really understand the basic underlying laws, just as our caveman ancestors could use fire without knowing what it was.


You would not get along with James Clerk Maxwell, and he was a century before you. Also, arguing that ignorance of aspects of areas of knowledge is equivalent to total ignorance ought to be met with total incredulity. It's sort of like whining about a projectile not following a completely parabolic path, in atmosphere, and then claiming that nothing of Newtonian physics works because of added complexities like the force of drag in opposition to the vector of the projectile. It's called "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."



Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 3:09 am

The proposal by naive idiots that even the planets of the solar system, not to speak of interstellar planets, offer any sort of colonizable habitat without huge technological pre-preparation that requires centuries of effort if it can be accomplished at all indicates how unfortunate naive and gullible glaze-eyes adherents of pseudo science fiction such as Star Wars and Star Trek can be. The colonists from Europe to the Americas came to a rich and fertile continent ripe for exploration and full of everything humanity could use to build a civilization. The planets and moons of the solar system offers only death to anyone venturing on their surfaces without huge and fragile technical support. Here on Earth there are wide open spaces on Antarctica and in the many Earth deserts that are too forbidding for present technological modification at our current level even though there is an abundance of air and easily available water compared to the conditions on the other planets and nobody is eager to move there. The seas which cover a major part of Earth are wide open for colonization and no real effort is being made there either.
The only remote possibilities lie in robot colonization which, in the long run of centuries, might be able to provide places for limited human existence
Interplanetary colonization is absolute total nonsense, at least for this century and probably beyond.



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17 Nov 2010, 3:42 am

Wombat, unless you have access to information about the Higgs boson that the rest of us don't...

Gravity is a field effect, the result of the distortion of space/time by the presence of mass. Sufficient mass can distort space/time quite a ways out; the "frame drag" of the black hole at this galaxy's core explains the existence of the galactic spiral arms.

"Lines of magnetic force" are a convenient English shorthand for a rather complex mathematical concept, covering some of the odder effects in classical physics. Google James Clerk Maxwell and Michael Faraday to learn more. You can't see a "line of magnetic force" any more than you can see a "ray of light"; all you can see is its effect on other things. This doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I would go on, but it's late, and I'm tired. Suffice it to say, we know more than you suppose about the nature of magnetic fields and photons. Please don't take your own ignorance of physics as indicative of the general state of the science.


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DGuru
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17 Nov 2010, 5:33 am

ruveyn wrote:
DGuru wrote:
Compared to sailing wooden ships across the Atlantic, the up front costs of manned space flight to the only other planets we can possible colonize (Moon and Mars) is out of reach.

ruveyn


At the moment.

I was thinking very, very long term(centuries, maybe even millenia).



Robdemanc
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17 Nov 2010, 6:22 am

Sand wrote:
The proposal by naive idiots that even the planets of the solar system, not to speak of interstellar planets, offer any sort of colonizable habitat without huge technological pre-preparation that requires centuries of effort if it can be accomplished at all indicates how unfortunate naive and gullible glaze-eyes adherents of pseudo science fiction such as Star Wars and Star Trek can be. The colonists from Europe to the Americas came to a rich and fertile continent ripe for exploration and full of everything humanity could use to build a civilization. The planets and moons of the solar system offers only death to anyone venturing on their surfaces without huge and fragile technical support. Here on Earth there are wide open spaces on Antarctica and in the many Earth deserts that are too forbidding for present technological modification at our current level even though there is an abundance of air and easily available water compared to the conditions on the other planets and nobody is eager to move there. The seas which cover a major part of Earth are wide open for colonization and no real effort is being made there either.
The only remote possibilities lie in robot colonization which, in the long run of centuries, might be able to provide places for limited human existence
Interplanetary colonization is absolute total nonsense, at least for this century and probably beyond.


I agree. It is such a pipe dream at the moment. And I think that things are going to ge a lot worse on Earth before we venture out to the nearby planets.



ruveyn
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17 Nov 2010, 9:47 am

Wombat wrote:
Ruveyn and others:

We have no idea what gravity is. For that matter we don't know what a photon is or a "magnetic field".



We do not have to know what gravity or light IS to know what they DO. Our electronically based technology and the GPS system is the answer to you assertion that we know diddly squat about electromagnetism and gravity. Some diddly squat, the computer you are using.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 17 Nov 2010, 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

visagrunt
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17 Nov 2010, 11:59 am

Wombat wrote:
Ruveyn and others:

We have no idea what gravity is. For that matter we don't know what a photon is or a "magnetic field".

My high school teacher used to do the magnet and iron filings trick to show "magnetic lines of force".
I asked WHAT IS A MAGNETIC LINE OF FORCE?
She couldn't tell me.

I said "what if I had a super microscope that could see atoms? Could I see the lines of force?"
She had no answer.

"Time" is different on the surface of the earth than a satellite in orbit.

As for a "Photon", is it a wave or a particle or both? If it is a particle then why can it go through six feet of clear glass but be stopped by a piece of carbon paper?

Why can a single photon shot at a diffraction grid go through not one but SEVERAL slits at the same time?

The fact is that we know tiddly-squat about physics.

We can make computers and jet aircraft but we don't really understand the basic underlying laws, just as our caveman ancestors could use fire without knowing what it was.


For a self-confessed IQ snob, you are really demonstrating a lack of cognitive capacity.

You are trying to reduce particle physics to the concrete models of Newtonian physics. A particle is not a tiny billiard ball shooting around in the void. The sooner you disabuse yourself of that notion, the sooner you will come to understand models for what they are: models! They are ways of observing, analysing and predicting events. So long as the models provide predictions that are consistent with future observations, they demonstrate ongoing validity.


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Inuyasha
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17 Nov 2010, 5:33 pm

We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.



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17 Nov 2010, 6:21 pm

Wombat wrote:
Ruveyn and others:

We have no idea what gravity is. For that matter we don't know what a photon is or a "magnetic field".

My high school teacher used to do the magnet and iron filings trick to show "magnetic lines of force".
I asked WHAT IS A MAGNETIC LINE OF FORCE?
She couldn't tell me.

I said "what if I had a super microscope that could see atoms? Could I see the lines of force?"
She had no answer.

"Time" is different on the surface of the earth than a satellite in orbit.

As for a "Photon", is it a wave or a particle or both? If it is a particle then why can it go through six feet of clear glass but be stopped by a piece of carbon paper?

Why can a single photon shot at a diffraction grid go through not one but SEVERAL slits at the same time?

The fact is that we know tiddly-squat about physics.

We can make computers and jet aircraft but we don't really understand the basic underlying laws, just as our caveman ancestors could use fire without knowing what it was.


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx130793-60-0.html

I think you were told the answers to all of these questions way back when in ^^^ that thread. It was also covered that YOU seem to know "tiddly-squat" about physics, whilst everyone else seems to know a fair bit. Also, did you just paste that bit about magnetic lines of force verbatim from that thread? If you didn't then its a bit creepy that you can replicate it so precisely.


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Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 6:23 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


I have been following your posts and am fully in support of sending you to the Moon or Mars. Or even to an extra-solar planet. The world would obviously be better for it. If you are fascinated by reproduction in space perhaps you could push developing new techniques in that area. The old missionary position would obviously fall into quick obsolescence. A double occupation lead lined space suit is probably the prime target.



Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 6:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


I have been following your posts and am fully in support of sending you to the Moon or Mars. Or even to an extra-solar planet. The world would obviously be better for it. If you are fascinated by reproduction in space perhaps you could push developing new techniques in that area. The old missionary position would obviously fall into quick obsolescence. A double occupation lead lined space suit is probably the prime target.



Inuyasha
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17 Nov 2010, 6:39 pm

Sand wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


I have been following your posts and am fully in support of sending you to the Moon or Mars. Or even to an extra-solar planet. The world would obviously be better for it. If you are fascinated by reproduction in space perhaps you could push developing new techniques in that area. The old missionary position would obviously fall into quick obsolescence. A double occupation lead lined space suit is probably the prime target.


I was referring to studies NASA has already done involving rats.

We need to have better propulsion systems especially if there is an emergency otherwise if there is any problems a colony could starve to death before help arrives.



iamnotaparakeet
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17 Nov 2010, 6:48 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29



Sand
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17 Nov 2010, 6:52 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.



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17 Nov 2010, 6:58 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
We need a lot better propulsion technology and new power sources before we can colonize the moon or other planets in this solar system. I think we also may need artificial gravity and the ability to create shielding from radiation, because being in a reproduction in a zero-G environment could cause all kinds of birth defects.

That said I could see us eventually having people living on the moon and on Mars.


One thing that needs to be done is to make a special clause in the laws denying atmospheric nuclear testing to allow for nuclear propulsion spacecraft. The technology was available then to make them, such as Project Orion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Or ... pulsion%29


That would certainly increase the motivation to colonize other planets since in a very short time the Earth would become uninhabitable for local radiation levels.


The adjustment to said law need only concern extra-atmospheric testing. No requirement to do any nuking IN the atmosphere.


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