What Makes People Vote Republican?

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number5
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23 Nov 2010, 1:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

So let's see, come up with a bogus case of Fox News committing copyright infringement, get a far-left judge whom has serious ethical issues and tada they can shut down the Fox News website.

@ number5 & waltur

Any other juvenile comments?

Yes. Shut down Fox News? One can only hope.

Seriously though, I don't like this bill either. But what in the world does this have to do with this thread? The Senate Judiciary Committee is bipartisan.

waltur
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23 Nov 2010, 1:11 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

waltur wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

It still has the same elitist attitude that was why the Dems got their heads handed to them.

Quit lying and actually read the article.

Seriously, I'm not lying. If you actually look at the wording you can tell what the attitude of the individual whom wrote the piece was. It was an elitist attitude.

Hilarity like the exchange you just participated in is a significant part of why "liberal elitists" have that sort of attitude towards you and people like you.

Seriously, you want to explain the FCC trying to go around congress to regulate the internet in order to attempt to shut down free speech.

The Republicans that voted for the Copyright whatever concerning the Internet are likely to be beaten in Republican primaries come 2012, the Democrats that voted for the measure will have to be kicked out of office in the general. The reason is that the far left IS THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

excellent example of that exemplary reading comprehension.

your chalk-board skills are astounding.

You can stop with the sarcasm... :roll:

On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee unanimously approved a bill that would give the Attorney General the right to shut down websites with a court order if copyright infringement is deemed “central to the activity” of the site — regardless if the website has actually committed a crime. The Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) is among the most draconian laws ever considered to combat digital piracy, and contains what some have called the “nuclear option,” which would essentially allow the Attorney General to turn suspected websites “off.”
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/ ... ship-bill/

So let's see, come up with a bogus case of Fox News committing copyright infringement, get a far-left judge whom has serious ethical issues and tada they can shut down the Fox News website. This is despite the fact, that it is a violation of due process.

Furthermore the article continues...

Scholars, lawyers, technologists, human rights groups and public interest groups have denounced the bill. Forty-nine prominent law professors called it “dangerous.” (pdf.) The American Civil Liberties Union and Human Rights Watch warned the bill could have “grave repercussions for global human rights.” (pdf.) Several dozen of the most prominent internet engineers in the country — many of whom were instrumental in the creation of the internet — said the bill will “create an environment of tremendous fear and uncertainty for technological innovation.” (pdf.) Several prominent conservative bloggers, including representatives from RedState.com, HotAir.com, The Next Right and Publius Forum, issued a call to help stop this “serious threat to the Internet.”
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/ ... ip-bill/2/

So we have the ACLU and conservative bloggers agreeing with each other, which in itself is an indicator that people should be on full alert about this bill.

Further you have an argument on both sides concerning "net neutrality."
http://www.pcworld.com/article/169100/a ... ality.html

Anyways, corporations that try to censor sites can end up getting sued, good luck sueing the Federal Government.

The Democrats and the Left in General like to use code words like: fairness doctrine, net neutrality, etc. What they are really saying is censorship to silence conservatives so that only the Left Wing's message gets out.

@ number5 & waltur

Any other juvenile comments?

yeah.... see, i'm not sure if you caught it or not, but you jumped topics. you jumped topics hard. you went from arguing that haidt's article "is an elitist hit piece on Republicans and the General Public," which invited criticism of your reading comprehension as the piece was obviously aimed at undercutting the "elitism" of "liberalism." his whole f***ing point is that conservatives are genuine in their views and that this means liberals should probably stop just pretending conservatives "aren't intelligent because they don't agree with the nutty left's agenda."

you go from this straight to "the government is trying to shut down free speech!! !! !! !! !!11111112222"

how silly of me to point this out. i could have better spent the time picking at my navel.

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waltur
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23 Nov 2010, 1:20 pm

also: while you're off chalk-boarding, http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-3804 look at the cosponsors. also pay attention to what organizations are supporting or opposing it (near the bottom of the page. info comes from maplight).

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Inuyasha
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23 Nov 2010, 1:34 pm

waltur wrote:

First, I was giving an example of what has been going on lately that shows an elitist attitude, and the Republicans involved in the bill I mentioned are probably being thrown out in the Republican Primaries. Back to topic, the point I was making is that there is a larger narrative.

Anyways the article has several clues to this individuals motivations and feelings.

2nd paragraph in article:

Quote:

Diagnosis is a pleasure. It is a thrill to solve a mystery from scattered clues, and it is empowering to know what makes others tick. In the psychological community, where almost all of us are politically liberal, our diagnosis of conservatism gives us the additional pleasure of shared righteous anger. We can explain how Republicans exploit frames, phrases, and fears to trick Americans into supporting policies (such as the "war on terror" and repeal of the "death tax") that damage the national interest for partisan advantage.

3rd paragraph in article:

Quote:

But with pleasure comes seduction, and with righteous pleasure comes seduction wearing a halo. Our diagnosis explains away Republican successes while convincing us and our fellow liberals that we hold the moral high ground. Our diagnosis tells us that we have nothing to learn from other ideologies, and it blinds us to what I think is one of the main reasons that so many Americans voted Republican over the last 30 years: they honestly prefer the Republican vision of a moral order to the one offered by Democrats. To see what Democrats have been missing, it helps to take off the halo, step back for a moment, and think about what morality really is.

Not going to bother quoting 4th paragraph except to say if you study it you'll see that they are saying our concepts of morality are rooted in laws from primitive cultures and have no rational basis.

6th paragraph in article:

Quote:

This research led me to two conclusions. First, when gut feelings are present, dispassionate reasoning is rare. In fact, many people struggled to fabricate harmful consequences that could justify their gut-based condemnation. I often had to correct people when they said things like "it's wrong because… um…eating dog meat would make you sick" or "it's wrong to use the flag because… um… the rags might clog the toilet." These obviously post-hoc rationalizations illustrate the philosopher David Hume's dictum that reason is "the slave of the passions, and can pretend to no other office than to serve and obey them." This is the first rule of moral psychology: feelings come first and tilt the mental playing field on which reasons and arguments compete. If people want to reach a conclusion, they can usually find a way to do so. The Democrats have historically failed to grasp this rule, choosing uninspiring and aloof candidates who thought that policy arguments were forms of persuasion.

I'm not going to go on an on through every paragraph in the article but you the clues are there as to what this guy's actual attitude is.

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23 Nov 2010, 1:46 pm

there is a koan that you consistently remind me of.

Quote:

A wise man sought to find the true nature of reality. He meditated daily in front of the fence surrounding his humble dwelling. He would look out at the world through a missing slat in the fence. Beyond his yard was a green pasture with a small herd of cattle. Every morning the cows would walk past the fence in single file on their way to graze. Every evening they would return, again in single file.

As each beast passed by the wise man, he would first glimpse the snout through the missing slat, followed by the head, body and finally the tail.

One morning after the herd had passed him, the wise man sat in deep contemplation. Suddenly, as he was struck by total infinite understanding - he arose and proclaimed, "The nose causes the tail!"

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Inuyasha
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23 Nov 2010, 1:54 pm

@ waltur

You actually remind me of a certain group of people from Call of the Wild (the novel by Jack London), whom ended up falling through some ice killing themselves and some sled dogs, after the lead dog whom they mistreated refused to cross because it sensed danger. Someone else arrived and took the lead dog away from them before they could kill the dog, but they went ahead and ended up drowning because they ignored the warnings. Not going to get into the story much further, cause I haven't read the book in years and not sure if you have read it or not so I don't want to spoil it if you do decide to read it.

auntblabby
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23 Nov 2010, 1:57 pm

waltur wrote:

there is a koan that you consistently remind me of.

Quote:

that reminds me of another story about a scientist chopping all the legs off of a frog.

marshall
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23 Nov 2010, 2:38 pm

Alright, here is my own personally insulting elitist view of people who vote Republican...

They tend to have a black-and-white rule-based morality rather than one based on compassion or fairness. They also see the world in black-and-white and think that there are simple solutions to complex problems. They think that if the government just got out of the way everything would be fine and dandy.

The one exception is they tend to like government when it's leaders stand up for jingoism and give lots of lip service to "traditional values". Governments role isn't to solve real problems. The governments role is to act as a cheer-leader for a certain segment of the American population. This makes them feel good about themselves as "real Americans".

Tollorin
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23 Nov 2010, 3:18 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

So we have the ACLU and conservative bloggers agreeing with each other, which in itself is an indicator that people should be on full alert about this bill.

Further you have an argument on both sides concerning "net neutrality."
http://www.pcworld.com/article/169100/a ... ality.html

Anyways, corporations that try to censor sites can end up getting sued, good luck sueing the Federal Government.

The Democrats and the Left in General like to use code words like: fairness doctrine, net neutrality, etc. What they are really saying is censorship to silence conservatives so that only the Left Wing's message gets out.

@ number5 & waltur

Any other juvenile comments?

I'm left wing and I don't agree with this bill either... Do that make me conservative? For not approving a bill pushed by corporate interests in culture not really caring for culture?
So what's your point half-demon?

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Inuyasha
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23 Nov 2010, 3:45 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

There is a difference between liberals that are actually sane and tolerant people and the liberals that we see in government like Nancy Pelosi.

Not all Democrats are bad, just a lot of the ones in the Federal Government happen to be.

There is a story that a Democrat Senator from Oregon may be moving to fillabuster, if that's true then I agree with him. Despite what some people here may think I do not blindly support Republicans, I vote on the individual candidates not the party affiliation.

adifferentname
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23 Nov 2010, 8:19 pm

waltur wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

I don't understand why Americans vote for either party. Both are equally responsible for the problems which the country faces, yet everyone would rather divide into two camps and sling mud at the other faction.

Should America ever fall as a country, the epitaph will read 'Well it wasn't OUR fault'.

we don't perceive that we have alternate options.

seriously, the number of signs with a candidates name on them stuck in fences at intersections is a deciding factor in our elections. we're that bad at this.

hope for an AI takeover.

at this point, most of us would settle for zombies.

I seem to remember reading about an America that chose to overthrow what it perceived as an unjust system. Perhaps you've all been brain-washed into putting too much faith in your constitution and the 'American Dream', along with the multitude of opiates for the masses - reality TV, religion, wrestling.

There's certainly another option, but the world we live in is much too comfortable to rock the boat. Of course if the boat happens to be slowly taking on water...

Inuyasha
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23 Nov 2010, 8:28 pm

The Constitution isn't the problem, the problem is government blatently ignoring the Constitution and thinking they are above the law or that they are rulers.

Thankfully a lot of those folks are now going to be in the unemployment lines, and even more of them will be added in 2012.

AngelRho
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24 Nov 2010, 9:02 am

adifferentname wrote:

waltur wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Yeah! And whatthefreak is wrong with wrestling???

NeantHumain
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24 Nov 2010, 9:41 am

In summary, Jonathan Haidt wants Democrats to become more conservative? If I wanted more flag-waving, suspicion of immigrants, and "speak English or die" sentiments, I would vote Republican. The fact is I am repulsed by these stands.

adifferentname
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24 Nov 2010, 9:58 am

AngelRho wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

waltur wrote:

adifferentname wrote:

Yeah! And whatthefreak is wrong with wrestling???

As a distraction from real world issue? Everything.

waltur
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24 Nov 2010, 12:27 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

that's just the thing. he isn't saying that democrats need to become more conservative. he's saying that liberals and conservatives view things differently and that, for either side, a knee-jerk "i disagree, therefore you're wrong" reaction is unjustified. his specific examples, cited by inuyasha, are stereotypes of conservatives held by many liberals.

his message isn't that "we're wrong and they're right" but it's also not "we're right and they're wrong." his TED talk, which i linked on the first page, if i remember correctly, may be a better way to see his tone on this subject. though, again, interpreting tone is tough for a lot of us. as is seeing the shades of gray he's talking about in that talk and in this article.

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