Feminist preoccupation with power

Page 7 of 96 [ 1523 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 96 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

08 Apr 2012, 1:33 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

TM wrote:

LennytheWicked wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

also, the gender pay gap still does exist. when men and women are working in identical jobs with identical experience, overall on average they will tend to earn less. some economists have come up with explanations for the pay gap, but the explanations don't eliminate the gap. it is still there.

The fact that it's still there doesn't mean it isn't worth explaining. It could be very well that women prefer job security over earning potential, since they are less likely to lose their jobs to the recession and tend to be more risk averse. Also women tend to have more jobs in the public sector than men. Makes sense to me, as testosterone is linked to higher financial risk taking and more competitiveness.

identical jobs with identical experience

Within the same companies in the same geographic location? Also, are these base salaries or incentive based salaries or a mix of both?

identical jobs with identical experience

Ok then, if "identical jobs with identical experience" includes billable hours, sick days off, overtime, within the same companies performing exactly the same tasks in the same geographic location and every single other variable and this can be explained by economists without resulting to gender based explanations then I don't see what the problem is. You'll always have a pay gap, especially if people negotiate salaries themselves. Your beginning salary sets the pace for your entire career unless you get more education or enhance your value by other means.

I did read multiple articles about how women tend to negotiate less and less harshly when it comes to salary. I've heard some arguments that women get more powerful reactions when they enter hardball negotiations or are more concerned with their relationship with the boss and other members of the company. Speaking just for myself, if my boss doesn't feel like punching me in the face after a salary negotiation I did a poor freaking job.

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

08 Apr 2012, 1:33 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

TM wrote:

LennytheWicked wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

identical jobs with identical experience

Within the same companies in the same geographic location? Also, are these base salaries or incentive based salaries or a mix of both?

identical jobs with identical experience

Same companies and geographic location?

I bet if I were to seek a job as a waiter, I wouldn't rake in nearly the tips of your average sexy female teenager.

There is at least one where the ladies are ahead.

I was a busboy and the ladies always tipped me well!! ! Waitresses there made on a good night $100-$200 in tips, I would usually be behind them but I was also on the floor less having kitchen or bar duties. I think women getting more tips is more an expression of how males are more willing to throw money at females for favors, real or hoped for

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 1:35 pm

TM wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

TM wrote:

LennytheWicked wrote:

AceOfSpades wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

identical jobs with identical experience

Within the same companies in the same geographic location? Also, are these base salaries or incentive based salaries or a mix of both?

identical jobs with identical experience

even with all of those factors explained, women make less than men at the same job.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

08 Apr 2012, 1:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

even with all of those factors explained, women make less than men at the same job.

Yeah, I'm going to need sources for that claim. Also, does that account for marital and child status? Assuming this is the source, http://jec.senate.gov/public/?a=Files.S ... 32fe70a45c

Having reviewed that report, I found that they did not include all potential variables that are non-gender related. Such as billable hours, overtime, less sick leave taken, total hours worked, geographic location, general pay level within each company. As I said earlier, they left out a significant amount of variables in their report that skews the outcome of the statistic.

Last edited by TM on 08 Apr 2012, 1:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

08 Apr 2012, 1:39 pm

TM wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

even with all of those factors explained, women make less than men at the same job.

Yeah, I'm going to need sources for that claim.

Wow, the PPR laugh track is back!

Haven't heard it since Inuyasha's time.

_________________
.

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

08 Apr 2012, 1:56 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

TM wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

even with all of those factors explained, women make less than men at the same job.

Yeah, I'm going to need sources for that claim.

Wow, the PPR laugh track is back!

Haven't heard it since Inuyasha's time.

I like the value you add to these discussions as the enforcer and holder of absolute truth. It's almost like you view yourself like some comic book hero.

Last edited by TM on 08 Apr 2012, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 1:57 pm

this is a study that found that, while some of the wage gap is due to choosing different jobs, there is still an unexplained gap that is larger in some sectors (it exists is most sectors but in some jobs it is less noteworthy):

http://faculty.uml.edu/mduffy/48.371/Pe ... %20Gap.pdf

Quote:

As to the generalizability of our findings, the results we report are based first on blue-collar and clerical occupations located in 11 manufacturing and five service industries and second on a selection of professional and administrative occupations, including some managerial jobs in the professions. Obviously there is a need to replicate these findings for a wider set of occupations and industries. It is likely that the general pattern reported here will be upheld by such extensions, at least for blue-collar, clerical, technical, administrative, and professional employees, although this is not something we can know. However, the situation for
managerial employees may be more complex. There may be more variation in wages and possibly larger differences between men and women within given occupation-establishment pairs in these lines of work. At the same time, occupational sex segregation may be less pronounced in these occupations (see Beller 1984). Therefore, the amount of the wage gap reducible to occupation-establishment segregation may be less in these occupations, and a larger part of it due to within-job wage differences

"within-job wage differences" are comparisons of men and women doing identical jobs in the same company.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 1:58 pm

i'd like to see a source that says the opposite, TM. seeing as how you made the original claim.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 2:05 pm

here is another one:

http://cle.berkeley.edu/wp/wp64.pdf

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

08 Apr 2012, 2:06 pm

TM wrote:

It's almost like you view yourself like some comic book hero.

Vex can actually fly!!

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

08 Apr 2012, 2:25 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

i'd like to see a source that says the opposite, TM. seeing as how you made the original claim.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w7732.pdf

The gender gap in this report is so small as to almost be a statistic anomaly and the report is 14 years old. For a more recent report, which is also a bit newer than your 1995 study, I recommend Thomas Sowells "Economic facts and fallacies" which you can buy at amazon.com.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 2:35 pm

your study said this:

Quote:

Taking these factors together, it seems plausible that the gender pay gap will continue to decline at least modestly in the next few years. But it seems unlikely to vanish. Women continue to confront discrimination in the labor market, although its extent seems to be decreasing.

the gender gap still exists, like i said.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

TM
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

08 Apr 2012, 2:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

your study said this:

Quote:

the gender gap still exists, like i said.

Hence why I also added the reference to Sowell since the study I linked was from 1998 and is thus hugely outdated as were your studies. The most recent study I've read on the topic was the book from Sowell, so I guess you're going to have to buy it.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 2:40 pm

maybe quote something from the other study, because i am not going to buy it.

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

08 Apr 2012, 2:52 pm

Now that women have all the legal rights men do, feminism should logically start winding down. The fact that it's not winding down in the slightest (plus the rhetoric of the many feminists) makes me think that the motive of the movement presently is women being in control in the world, not equality between men and women. Also, there's always a lot of money to be made in the social cause field. So, naturally, feminists and also leaders like Jeremiah Wright, Rev Al Sharpton, and the Rev Jesse Jackson would constantly have us believe it's still the 1960's -- that American law is not merely slightly unfair (which is the truth in 2012) -- but rather insanely unfair, and that therefore there are endless funds that need to be raised. Cha-ching! Then there's the "save the planet" fund collectors... among whom is the climate genius Al Gore. :roll:
The only thing donors can be certain about with such unscrupulous individuals and organizations is that these groups will take their money.
A WP member told me that Michael Moore uses his personal $50 million to help people. Who wouldn't want to be that kind of charitable?? :lol:

_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

Last edited by Ragtime on 08 Apr 2012, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

08 Apr 2012, 2:59 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Now that women have all the legal rights men do, feminism should logically start winding down. The fact that it's not winding down in the slightest (plus the rhetoric of the many feminists) makes me think that the motive of the movement presently is women being in control in the world, not equality between men and women. Also, there's always a lot of money to be made in the social cause field. So, naturally, feminists and also leaders like Jeremiah Wright, Rev Al Sharpton, and the Rev Jesse Jackson would constantly have us believe it's still the 1960's -- that American law is not merely slightly unfair (which is the truth in 2012) -- but rather insanely unfair, and that therefore there are endless funds that need to be raised. Cha-ching! Then there's the "save the planet" fund collectors... among whom is the climate genius Al Gore.
The only thing donors can be certain about with such unscrupulous individuals and organizations is that these groups will take their money.

legal rights are not the only thing worth fighting for.

i would question *your* motives since you seem determined to disparage feminists (and keep women "in their place")

_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105

Page 7 of 96 [ 1523 posts ] Go to page Previous 1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 96 Next

Jump to:

Feminist preoccupation with power Post Reply New Topic

Feminist preoccupation with power