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South African Law Graduate Model SHOT DEAD by Paralympian...

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Raptor
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28 Feb 2013, 10:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Just for fun, Joe Biden has recently been quoted saying that the ideal weapon for home defense is a double barreled shotgun, and that the proper way to employ it is to fire both barrels into the air as a warning to intruders on your property, and that in an emergency you can shoot it through the door... And people wonder why I hold anti-gun politicians in such contempt, seeing as how their "advice" is to commit multiple felonies and needlessly endanger innocent people to say nothing of their ignorance.


Yeah, good advice. :roll:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0IVSGctQIg[/youtube]


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Jono
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01 Mar 2013, 9:27 am

Dox47 wrote:
Jono wrote:
The thing is though, victims of domestic violence are statistically 3 times more likely to get killed if there is a firearm in the house than otherwise. That's why people who have been accused of domestic violence in the past aren't legally supposed to get firearm licenses in South Africa.


Read those studies carefully some time, you might be surprised at the methodology they used to arrive at their conclusions.


Regardless, someone with a history of domestic violence should still not be allowed to own a gun because they could shoot their partner with it. My point still stands.



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01 Mar 2013, 10:13 am

They weren't "allowed" to carry out domestic violence, either.
In the US you probably wouldn't pass the NICS check to purchase a firearm with that record but there are other channels.


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J-Greens
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01 Mar 2013, 10:57 am

Dox47 wrote:
and yet you're silent on them.

Yeah because I'm not going to start an argument with everyone on everything. I've chosen to become particularly vocal on firearms specifically.

What the hell is GWOT by the way?

Dox47 wrote:
yet no one is chiming in to agree with or defend you and your arguments.

And? I don't need some gang to back me up so I look any better - if they post and agree, fine, if not whatevs. Other users however, have this predictable little gang posting around, pouncing in and out of topics, it's all completely pathetic and laughable.



techstepgenr8tion
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01 Mar 2013, 12:47 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Just for fun, Joe Biden has recently been quoted saying that the ideal weapon for home defense is a double barreled shotgun, and that the proper way to employ it is to fire both barrels into the air as a warning to intruders on your property, and that in an emergency you can shoot it through the door... And people wonder why I hold anti-gun politicians in such contempt, seeing as how their "advice" is to commit multiple felonies and needlessly endanger innocent people to say nothing of their ignorance.

Lol, Biden's a funny guy even when he says something pro-gun. Yes, some people really like the persuasive power of the "Chhk-chhk" that a pump-action shotgun makes while being primed (my cousin loves how the Mossberg has a strap under the front to steady it even more).

I don't live in a particularly big house, windows on all sides, and even with a couple guns under my bed now I don't keep either loaded. For home protection I just bought an ASP 16" telescoping baton. I'm thinking that in combination with a Klarus XT-11 600 lumen tactical flashlight would be my best bet for home safety. Lol, talk about identifying to target - with that Klarus you'd be able to tell real quick whether you recognized the voice behind the stream of curses; going from eyes fully adjusted to the dark to 600 lumens to the face would have to be a pretty bad experience, not to mention them being at your mercy probably for close to an hour maybe more.



Dox47
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01 Mar 2013, 12:49 pm

J-Greens wrote:
Yeah because I'm not going to start an argument with everyone on everything. I've chosen to become particularly vocal on firearms specifically.


Ahh, but that belies your stated goal of saving lives, as targeting firearms is a particularly ineffective and quixotic method of doing so, especially when there are so many better and more immediate ways of going about it. Add in the fact that you know less than nothing about guns (I'm counting misinformation as a negative here), and it becomes all the more tragic/comic. You just hate guns, full stop, and the saving lives part is pure rationalization.

J-Greens wrote:
What the hell is GWOT by the way?


Global War On Terror; it's what our fearless leaders invoke to justify a whole mess of bad behaviors, like assassinating citizens without oversight, suspending civil liberties, and killing brown people like it's going out of style. But you just focus on those guns in civilian hands, as those clearly are the pressing issue of the day... :roll:

J-Greens wrote:
And? I don't need some gang to back me up so I look any better - if they post and agree, fine, if not whatevs.


You (surprise!) miss my point, which is that you're arguing a popular position, but you're doing it so poorly that people who share your position won't touch you with a ten foot pole, as association with you would damage their own credibility. That's not about "looking good", that's about making yourself radioactive to thinking people, something most would try and avoid. Basically, you've made yourself the Alex Jones of gun control on WP, congratulations.

J-Greens wrote:
Other users however, have this predictable little gang posting around, pouncing in and out of topics, it's all completely pathetic and laughable.


Hey Raptor, Dillogic, SJC, Browning, etc, I think he thinks he's trolling us!

It's like Christmas every time he posts, I couldn't make the anti-gun side look this bad with a sockpuppet account!


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Dox47
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01 Mar 2013, 12:54 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Lol, Biden's a funny guy even when he says something pro-gun.


Yeah, funny stuff, advising people to commit felonies and use lethal force on unidentified targets... Oscar Pistorius should hire Buckshot' Joe as an expert witness at his murder trial, as the man seems to be a leading proponent of blind firing.


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techstepgenr8tion
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01 Mar 2013, 1:08 pm

Dox47 wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Lol, Biden's a funny guy even when he says something pro-gun.


Yeah, funny stuff, advising people to commit felonies and use lethal force on unidentified targets... Oscar Pistorius should hire Buckshot' Joe as an expert witness at his murder trial, as the man seems to be a leading proponent of blind firing.

Lol, kind of like how Gene Sperling can threaten Bob Woodward and no one seems to care.



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01 Mar 2013, 4:53 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Ahh, but that belies your stated goal of saving lives

Total BS.


Dox47 wrote:
You just hate guns, full stop, and the saving lives part is pure rationalization.

Rationalization? More like half work & half lifestyle. You're the expert on those murder weapons - I'm the expert actually saving lives, contributing to society and humanity, getting my hands stuck in, covered in blood, putting up with the screams of agony and making sure they're still breathing when we handover...what do gun owners contribute, other than a blooming funeral service?

Dox47 wrote:
Basically, you've made yourself the Alex Jones of gun control on WP, congratulations.

How am I in the Alex Jones position? I haven't threatened anyone, nor own have owned or will ever own any firearms, my posts actually promote a safer world - completely the opposite of Alex Jones? If anything - it seems I'm on the Piers Morgan position, constantly hounded, wildly accused, intellectual and pro-life against people determined to end life.


Dox47 wrote:
Hey Raptor, Dillogic, SJC, Browning, etc, I think he thinks he's trolling us!

Well you thought wrong, I;m simply outing this malicious little gang for exactly what they are.



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01 Mar 2013, 5:28 pm

Raptor wrote:
They weren't "allowed" to carry out domestic violence, either.
In the US you probably wouldn't pass the NICS check to purchase a firearm with that record but there are other channels.


By "other channels" do you mean obtaining firearms illegally? Just because one could obtain illegal firearms doesn't mean that you can't regulate them. They will be confiscated if the police catch you with them.



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01 Mar 2013, 6:28 pm

Jono wrote:
Raptor wrote:
They weren't "allowed" to carry out domestic violence, either.
In the US you probably wouldn't pass the NICS check to purchase a firearm with that record but there are other channels.


By "other channels" do you mean obtaining firearms illegally? Just because one could obtain illegal firearms doesn't mean that you can't regulate them.


"Other" meaning outside of buying them through FFL holders (dealers) which is legal as it should be.
How will regulating them be effective? Did you know that murder is illegal?

Quote:
They will be confiscated if the police catch you with them.

IF the police catch you with them. It's a big IF.
They cannot even come close to winning the "war on drugs". What do you think they're going to be able to do about a more prolific and widely desirable commodity?


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Raptor
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01 Mar 2013, 6:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Ahh, but that belies your stated goal of saving lives

J-Greens wrote:
Total BS.

Is it?


Dox47 wrote:
You just hate guns, full stop, and the saving lives part is pure rationalization.

J-Greens wrote:
Rationalization? More like half work & half lifestyle. You're the expert on those murder weapons - I'm the expert actually saving lives, contributing to society and humanity, getting my hands stuck in, covered in blood, putting up with the screams of agony and making sure they're still breathing when we handover...what do gun owners contribute, other than a blooming funeral service?

Hmmm, sounds like you have a lot of hands on experience in gun related violence over there in Blighty. Myabe you ought to take care of things at home first......


Dox47 wrote:
Basically, you've made yourself the Alex Jones of gun control on WP, congratulations.

J-Greens wrote:
How am I in the Alex Jones position? I haven't threatened anyone, nor own have owned or will ever own any firearms, my posts actually promote a safer world - completely the opposite of Alex Jones? If anything - it seems I'm on the Piers Morgan position, constantly hounded, wildly accused, intellectual and pro-life against people determined to end life.

Promote a safer world for who, criminals?


Dox47 wrote:
Hey Raptor, Dillogic, SJC, Browning, etc, I think he thinks he's trolling us!

J-Greens wrote:
Well you thought wrong, I;m simply outing this malicious little gang for exactly what they are.

And what are we?
This should be good.


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Jono
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03 Mar 2013, 8:02 am

Raptor wrote:
Jono wrote:
Raptor wrote:
They weren't "allowed" to carry out domestic violence, either.
In the US you probably wouldn't pass the NICS check to purchase a firearm with that record but there are other channels.


By "other channels" do you mean obtaining firearms illegally? Just because one could obtain illegal firearms doesn't mean that you can't regulate them.


"Other" meaning outside of buying them through FFL holders (dealers) which is legal as it should be.
How will regulating them be effective? Did you know that murder is illegal?


Hang on. So, because murder is already illegal, we should not reduce the cases where it's more likely?

Raptor wrote:
Quote:
They will be confiscated if the police catch you with them.

IF the police catch you with them. It's a big IF.
They cannot even come close to winning the "war on drugs". What do you think they're going to be able to do about a more prolific and widely desirable commodity?


The number of deaths by firearm in the home has gone down dramatically in South Africa since they introduced Firearm Control Act. Additionally, they could have an amnesty period like we did about 4 years where people were allowed to hand in unlicensed firearms without being charged. That way, they would reduce the number of illegal firearms in circulation.



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03 Mar 2013, 1:18 pm

Jono wrote:
The number of deaths by firearm in the home has gone down dramatically in South Africa since they introduced Firearm Control Act.


And the number of cases of diabetes from ice cream went down dramatically after we banned ice cream...

Tracking instances of gun violence as proof that gun control works is backward - you have to prove that instances of death *period* went down as a result of the same law. Or violence period, not gun violence. It's obvious that instances of gun violence go away when you get rid of guns - the real question is whether that does anything to other types of crime.


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03 Mar 2013, 10:27 pm

Jono wrote:
The number of deaths by firearm in the home has gone down dramatically in South Africa since they introduced Firearm Control Act.

More like propoganda or just coincidence. Other than theoretically I don't see how firearm control could ever reduce death except for saving the lives of criminals.
Jono wrote:
Additionally, they could have an amnesty period like we did about 4 years where people were allowed to hand in unlicensed firearms without being charged. That way, they would reduce the number of illegal firearms in circulation.

Registration is the first step to confiscation.


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05 Mar 2013, 3:02 am

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
Jono wrote:
The number of deaths by firearm in the home has gone down dramatically in South Africa since they introduced Firearm Control Act.


And the number of cases of diabetes from ice cream went down dramatically after we banned ice cream...

Tracking instances of gun violence as proof that gun control works is backward - you have to prove that instances of death *period* went down as a result of the same law. Or violence period, not gun violence. It's obvious that instances of gun violence go away when you get rid of guns - the real question is whether that does anything to other types of crime.


Correction, I should have said that instances of people getting killed by an intimate partner has gone down. Getting killed by a firearm was initially one the most common ways for that to happen, plus pulling a trigger is easier and and more fatal than other ways of attempting to kill someone.