VEEP Debate--Who Won?
auntblabby
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Gender: Male
Posts: 115,227
Location: the island of defective toy santas
16 Oct 2016, 9:18 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
16 Oct 2016, 10:37 pm
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
auntblabby
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,227
Location: the island of defective toy santas
16 Oct 2016, 11:54 pm
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
16 Oct 2016, 11:57 pm
androbot01 wrote:
If Trump is setting up a scenario where he feels he was robbed of the vote he could mobilize the NRA and with his supporters it could get ugly.
I mentioned it in another thread that got locked, but Trump is not very popular with the NRA crowd, they just really hate Hillary.
_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.
- Rick Sanchez
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,227
Location: the island of defective toy santas
17 Oct 2016, 12:03 am
Shahunshah wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
in that so far you have not brought up the usual "life begins at conception so no sex unless a baby is intended" bit.
Well I have when I described a fetus as human at an early stage in development.do you also subscribe to the "no sex allowed unless a baby is directly intended" bit?
17 Oct 2016, 12:06 am
auntblabby wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
in that so far you have not brought up the usual "life begins at conception so no sex unless a baby is intended" bit.
Well I have when I described a fetus as human at an early stage in development.do you also subscribe to the "no sex allowed unless a baby is directly intended" bit?
17 Oct 2016, 12:08 am
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
17 Oct 2016, 12:25 am
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
Then you definitely don't understand how playing devil's advocate in a debate works. You are working really hard to make arguments with no basis in fact just for the sake of being contrary--that's not what playing devil's advocate is. All you are doing is repeating old tired anti-choice propaganda, that's not the same as taking a side in a debate and trying to find evidence to support that side and presenting that evidence. Propaganda is not evidence of anything except how easily most people are psychologically manipulated through a certain kind of targeted advertising of an idea (or more likely a baseless fear with no clear idea behind it at all.) The reason you are having trouble finding anything other than empty propaganda to support your argument is because the side of the argument you have taken up has no real evidence or logical consistency to speak of. When your argument is baseless, propaganda is all you've got.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
17 Oct 2016, 12:53 am
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
Then you definitely don't understand how playing devil's advocate in a debate works. You are working really hard to make arguments with no basis in fact just for the sake of being contrary--that's not what playing devil's advocate is. All you are doing is repeating old tired anti-choice propaganda, that's not the same as taking a side in a debate and trying to find evidence to support that side and presenting that evidence. Propaganda is not evidence of anything except how easily most people are psychologically manipulated through a certain kind of targeted advertising of an idea (or more likely a baseless fear with no clear idea behind it at all.) The reason you are having trouble finding anything other than empty propaganda to support your argument is because the side of the argument you have taken up has no real evidence or logical consistency to speak of. When your argument is baseless, propaganda is all you've got.
What would you say the main Pro Life argument against abortion is?
17 Oct 2016, 1:59 am
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
Then you definitely don't understand how playing devil's advocate in a debate works. You are working really hard to make arguments with no basis in fact just for the sake of being contrary--that's not what playing devil's advocate is. All you are doing is repeating old tired anti-choice propaganda, that's not the same as taking a side in a debate and trying to find evidence to support that side and presenting that evidence. Propaganda is not evidence of anything except how easily most people are psychologically manipulated through a certain kind of targeted advertising of an idea (or more likely a baseless fear with no clear idea behind it at all.) The reason you are having trouble finding anything other than empty propaganda to support your argument is because the side of the argument you have taken up has no real evidence or logical consistency to speak of. When your argument is baseless, propaganda is all you've got.
What would you say the main Pro Life argument against abortion is?
Different people have different arguments, but all the arguments I have seen to date are based in fundamental misunderstanding of biology and/or religious dogma. I have yet to encounter an anti-choice argument that had any logical consistency and factual evidence to back it up.
_________________
"Ego non immanis, sed mea immanis telum." ~ Ares, God of War
(Note to Moderators: my warning number is wrong on my profile but apparently can't be fixed so I will note here that it is actually 2, not 3--the warning issued to me on Aug 20 2016 was a mistake but I've been told it can't be removed.)
17 Oct 2016, 2:27 am
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
But you haven't directly disproved anything I have said.
Except I did: you made an assumption about why a certain percentage of women asked declined to participate in the study, and I told you there is no way to know why the women chose not to participate unless they were asked why they declined and they answered and that was included in the study, and it was not. Your assertion that the women declined to participate in this study because they "didn't want to disclose" is baseless.
Shahunshah wrote:
I think this is tense for me because I know you feel strongly about this and it is beginning to show.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
Finally I am not a troll just argumentative. I am playing devil's advocate but I will never claim to be good at it.
I feel strongly about people promoting ignorance and propaganda as legitimate arguments, yes. It's irritating and it prevents real dialogue from happening. Propaganda is empty rhetoric, empty words that waste the time of reasonable people and perpetuates dangerous misinformation among the impressionable, uneducated, and ignorant people. If you want to have discussions with people about these issues, learn to do it honestly and by having some kind of logically consistent argument with some actual evidence to back it up.
Well I was saying that as an educated assumption. Just think to yourself for a minute what reasons would a woman have to not want to do this and a desire not to disclose personal information would no doubt be one of them.
There is an important distinction to be made between not wanting to participate in a study about abortion and actually regretting the abortion one has gotten. You are conflating the two.
I don't feel like you are interested in actually learning about this topic or taking in any new information because you have already made up your mind that abortion is wrong. It's unfortunate that so many people chose not to learn anything new for this reason, but it is very common. Abortion laws will not be repealed, there is no rational country in the western world where this could possibly happen without the women of the population causing a revolution and overthrow of the government. We have worked hard to achieve autonomy and we're not going to cede it any time soon, and that means we are the ones who get to choose what happens to our bodies. So you few people who want to continue to argue against abortion are really wasting everyone's time. It's never going to be illegal again, so discussing it like the morality of it is debatable (it's not debatable) is ultimately irrelevant.
Then you definitely don't understand how playing devil's advocate in a debate works. You are working really hard to make arguments with no basis in fact just for the sake of being contrary--that's not what playing devil's advocate is. All you are doing is repeating old tired anti-choice propaganda, that's not the same as taking a side in a debate and trying to find evidence to support that side and presenting that evidence. Propaganda is not evidence of anything except how easily most people are psychologically manipulated through a certain kind of targeted advertising of an idea (or more likely a baseless fear with no clear idea behind it at all.) The reason you are having trouble finding anything other than empty propaganda to support your argument is because the side of the argument you have taken up has no real evidence or logical consistency to speak of. When your argument is baseless, propaganda is all you've got.
What would you say the main Pro Life argument against abortion is?
Different people have different arguments, but all the arguments I have seen to date are based in fundamental misunderstanding of biology and/or religious dogma. I have yet to encounter an anti-choice argument that had any logical consistency and factual evidence to back it up.
I do think I understand why some of my argument may have been annoying. To you it may have been kind of like listening someone who was anti-vaccine thinking they cause autism. Essentially its kind of like someone just shoving in an illogical, offensive and bizarre set of beliefs into someone's face whilst remaining complete closed off.
