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Where the left went wrong

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Kraichgauer
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27 Jan 2018, 3:31 pm

^^^
The likes of Richard Spencer don't want open debate, they just want to incense people's baser prejudices, and convince them that said prejudices are acceptable.
I never said Spencer and other human hyenas should be denied free speech, but neither should I be forbidden to call them what they are.


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DarthMetaKnight
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27 Jan 2018, 3:49 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I think he hurts himself and his past will always stain him. I have to have respect for the guy like I do with black nationalists in the same way.


Why respect either group?

For the record, I'm not fond of black nationalism. Most people who dispel racist pseudoscience in a mature way just call themselves liberals. I find that most people who call themselves "black nationalists" are extremists.

The world needs universal human rights, not nationalism of any kind.

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They have balls of steel and just say what they believe.


Being brave does not automatically make you intelligent.


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DarthMetaKnight
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27 Jan 2018, 4:06 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I'm serious. Jesus, you don't need to tell me anything, i thought you knew i had posted stuff from Norman Finkelstein and Miko Peled.

I never said all Jews. Gilad Atzmon is a great example.

Yes i did, i said they were both just Zionist groups. All the alt-right people are led by Zionist Jews or Zionists like Alex Jones with a Jewish wife. Tommy Robinson was given bail money by a prominent Zionist Jew lady from the US. Israel have gradually given up in the left to a point as people on the left can't support Israel as their policies become more insane.

But they like to control the anti-Zionist movement too, it's comtrolled opposition. Noam Chomsky is a great example. They won't talk about the lobby groups or Israel's role in 9/11.


Some of the 9/11 hijackers were mad at Israel, but Israel did not directly cause 9/11.

Noam Chomsky has spoken about lobby groups. He just understands that the lobbyists are motivated by greed, not Jewish nationalism.

Nationalism is one big fat scam. It is a mental disease which is inflicted upon the public by the elites. Of course, the elites don't actually believe in nationalism. It's a myth that they use to control us.


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JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 4:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
The likes of Richard Spencer don't want open debate, they just want to incense people's baser prejudices, and convince them that said prejudices are acceptable.
I never said Spencer and other human hyenas should be denied free speech, but neither should I be forbidden to call them what they are.


Have you got proof that they don't want open debate? I know that Duke definitely does.


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JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 4:46 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I think he hurts himself and his past will always stain him. I have to have respect for the guy like I do with black nationalists in the same way.


Why respect either group?

For the record, I'm not fond of black nationalism. Most people who dispel racist pseudoscience in a mature way just call themselves liberals. I find that most people who call themselves "black nationalists" are extremists.

The world needs universal human rights, not nationalism of any kind.

Quote:
They have balls of steel and just say what they believe.


Being brave does not automatically make you intelligent.


Because it takes guts to say what you believe especially when you put your life at risk by doing so.

There's no such thing as 'extremists'. Just newspeak.

The world needs real nationalism. Globalism is destroying the world.

Didn't say it did.


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JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 4:50 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
I'm serious. Jesus, you don't need to tell me anything, i thought you knew i had posted stuff from Norman Finkelstein and Miko Peled.

I never said all Jews. Gilad Atzmon is a great example.

Yes i did, i said they were both just Zionist groups. All the alt-right people are led by Zionist Jews or Zionists like Alex Jones with a Jewish wife. Tommy Robinson was given bail money by a prominent Zionist Jew lady from the US. Israel have gradually given up in the left to a point as people on the left can't support Israel as their policies become more insane.

But they like to control the anti-Zionist movement too, it's comtrolled opposition. Noam Chomsky is a great example. They won't talk about the lobby groups or Israel's role in 9/11.


Some of the 9/11 hijackers were mad at Israel, but Israel did not directly cause 9/11.

Noam Chomsky has spoken about lobby groups. He just understands that the lobbyists are motivated by greed, not Jewish nationalism.

Nationalism is one big fat scam. It is a mental disease which is inflicted upon the public by the elites. Of course, the elites don't actually believe in nationalism. It's a myth that they use to control us.


Uh. Numerous Israelis were arrested on 9/11. Some with explosives in their van and some with traces of explosives in their van. One of the guys who was arrested with traces of explosives in the van was seen the day before 9/11 in one of the towers. Some of the Israelis were seen celebrating as the first plane hit the tower and said they were there to "document the event".


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DarthMetaKnight
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27 Jan 2018, 4:57 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Globalism is destroying the world.


No it isn't.

I totally understand why some people oppose globalism, but anti-globalism is derived from bad logic.

Racial and ethnic conflict is a social construct. It comes from elites and their propaganda.

War is definitely a bad thing, but diplomacy is also an option. Isolationism is not the answer.

Economic globalisation is dangerous because many third-world countries don't have labor rights or child labor laws. Free trade between progressive countries is fine because, in this case, no exploitation can take place.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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27 Jan 2018, 5:28 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
She worked with the Swedish government and said Jews would be resented for "their leading role".

They are just against Muslims, Zionist groups trying to make people hate Muslims and support Israel.

They control both sides with their lobby groups. They got caught out in an Al Jazeera undercover documentary.


Are you trolling or are you serious?


This is something I'm really struggling with lately. It's becoming very hard for me to tell who is joking and who is trolling, and I don't understand where they draw the line in regards to the forum posting rules.



JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 6:24 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Globalism is destroying the world.


No it isn't.

I totally understand why some people oppose globalism, but anti-globalism is derived from bad logic.

Racial and ethnic conflict is a social construct. It comes from elites and their propaganda.

War is definitely a bad thing, but diplomacy is also an option. Isolationism is not the answer.

Economic globalisation is dangerous because many third-world countries don't have labor rights or child labor laws. Free trade between progressive countries is fine because, in this case, no exploitation can take place.


No. Globalisation is the biggest evil of all. Responsible for more deaths than anything.

No, it pretty much always comes from opposition to globalisation.

You have too much faith in people who claim to be doing something that they are not.


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JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 6:26 pm

karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
She worked with the Swedish government and said Jews would be resented for "their leading role".

They are just against Muslims, Zionist groups trying to make people hate Muslims and support Israel.

They control both sides with their lobby groups. They got caught out in an Al Jazeera undercover documentary.


Are you trolling or are you serious?


This is something I'm really struggling with lately. It's becoming very hard for me to tell who is joking and who is trolling, and I don't understand where they draw the line in regards to the forum posting rules.


You mean you struggle with people that you disagree with?


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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27 Jan 2018, 6:43 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
karathraceandherspecialdestiny wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
She worked with the Swedish government and said Jews would be resented for "their leading role".

They are just against Muslims, Zionist groups trying to make people hate Muslims and support Israel.

They control both sides with their lobby groups. They got caught out in an Al Jazeera undercover documentary.


Are you trolling or are you serious?


This is something I'm really struggling with lately. It's becoming very hard for me to tell who is joking and who is trolling, and I don't understand where they draw the line in regards to the forum posting rules.


You mean you struggle with people that you disagree with?


No, I mean what I said. I can't tell when people are just joking around and using humor and when they are trolling, and how that distinction is made by moderators. It's left me wondering if sarcasm or humor "tags" should be required on posts when joking is intended by the person posting, to help clear up some of the confusion because it seems like what is deemed humor and what is deemed trolling is rather arbitrary, otherwise.



JohnPowell
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27 Jan 2018, 7:39 pm

I think if someone is deemed to be trolling by the mods. The mods should ask that person to explain themselves.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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27 Jan 2018, 8:38 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I think if someone is deemed to be trolling by the mods. The mods should ask that person to explain themselves.


And what if their explanation is that they were joking around, as many people here seem to be doing? How is a distinction made by moderators who is joking and who is trolling? Where is the line between acceptable joking and trolling?



Kraichgauer
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27 Jan 2018, 10:15 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
The likes of Richard Spencer don't want open debate, they just want to incense people's baser prejudices, and convince them that said prejudices are acceptable.
I never said Spencer and other human hyenas should be denied free speech, but neither should I be forbidden to call them what they are.


Have you got proof that they don't want open debate? I know that Duke definitely does.


Because they are not going to back down from their goal of white nationalism. There is no debating such a dehumanizing philosophy. We can't reach a middle ground with such fanatics.


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DarthMetaKnight
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27 Jan 2018, 10:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Because they are not going to back down from their goal of white nationalism. There is no debating such a dehumanizing philosophy. We can't reach a middle ground with such fanatics.


We don't need to reach a middle ground with them, but we should logically refute their claims.

Racism can be scientifically refuted. Charles Darwin doubted the validity of scientific racism. Modern science has, indeed, conformed that racism is scientifically invalid.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

I think that we should have an open discussion with racists ... because we will win. If they resort to logical fallacies (as they typically do) they will lose support. When open discourse is allowed, the truth usually wins in the end.

When we silence the racists, this just makes them more dangerous because they never learn why they are wrong.

That's one of the biggest problems with modern society. Most people think that racism is wrong, but don't know why it's wrong. Any worldview without a solid logical foundation is doomed to fail.


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Kraichgauer
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27 Jan 2018, 10:43 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Because they are not going to back down from their goal of white nationalism. There is no debating such a dehumanizing philosophy. We can't reach a middle ground with such fanatics.


We don't need to reach a middle ground with them, but we should logically refute their claims.

Racism can be scientifically refuted. Charles Darwin doubted the validity of scientific racism. Modern science has, indeed, conformed that racism is scientifically invalid.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Racialism

I think that we should have an open discussion with racists ... because we will win. If they resort to logical fallacies (as they typically do) they will lose support. When open discourse is allowed, the truth usually wins in the end.

When we silence the racists, this just makes them more dangerous because they never learn why they are wrong.

That's one of the biggest problems with modern society. Most people think that racism is wrong, but don't know why it's wrong. Any worldview without a solid logical foundation is doomed to fail.


That is absolutely true. I stand corrected about debating them.


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