American "leftism" a threat to France...

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American left-ism has been hijacked by neoliberals. There aren't even any lasting terms for actual left-ism, because neoliberals keep hijacking them. "Progressive"..."liberal"...don't mean anything.

Neoliberalism - free-market capitalism
Neoconservatism - American exceptionalism, interventionist foreign policy, regime change wars

Both American main parties are both of these things. Yes, there is still a difference between them, but they both use the other as an excuse to keep marching right-ward. The "left" party in the USA is now right of center.

Look up "third way".

And the problem for actual progressives, is the theoretically left-aligned major media is firmly under control of neoliberals, and they use propaganda and gaslighting to denigrate actual progressives.

So, when France says it's under attack by American leftists, I have no idea what they're talking about. For one, American universities are bastions of neoliberalism. If that's where the attack is coming from, that's not progressivism.

For another, Macron isn't exactly leftist, either. If he has aligned himself with these "intellectuals", I still have no idea what anyone's position actually is.

Have I wandered into some sort of irony-free parallel universe?

We're really going down the route of slating certain elements of the not-actually-left-wing-American-left-wing for adopting tactics the right-wing have used for years??

Funny how that never gets raised, but this does.

I'm an Australian, remember.
We don't have exactly the same situation as the yanks.

We don't have as many ratbags to the right of politics as the Amerikans do, from what I can see, but there are examples of left-wing fanatics messing with businesses, here.

Google "Sleeping Giants".
If someone can tell me of an equivalent right-wing activist group engaging in financial blackmail/terrorism, I want to hear about it.
Seriously.

BTW, When are you going to define where *I* stand on the political spectrum?
I have been waiting for ages in another thread.

France is a very backward country if you ask me. I wouldn't want to live there. There are things that I would have to give up, like my gender identity and gender expression.

This is exactly correct, Macron is a politician who seems to be tapping into some type of "anti-wokeness" sentiment hitherto unheard of (at least for us English speaking folk) in French society?

Americans are actually far more religious and more conservative than western Europeans
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... y-nations/

The American media is certainly neo-liberal, one only has to look at the politics of Rupert Murdoch and his Fox empire. The source of this "scary" leftism that Macron has declared is a threat is somewhat difficult to identify (to put it lightly).

Last edited by cyberdad on 12 Feb 2021, 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm on the first flight to France.

I briefly dated a French expatriate girl when I worked in Malaysia. Her Gallic charm was very forward and it caught me off guard how openly she told me her feelings for me. I imagine you would love France.

Agreed, Pepe. But also remember: Some bullies don't think of themselves as bullies, or are conveniently oblivious. They, in turn, accuse anyone who thinks differently from them/has a different opinion from them as being bullies by not towing their party line.

Not saying this about you. More of an observation in general. Some people bully others with different opinions under the guise of "they're wrong for thinking differently, they offend me, therefore I can bully them in retaliation because they're the real bully." Poor logic, but runs rampant.

Please feel free to elaborate and give examples...

There are a few things that are wrong here.

Firstly, liberalism has always been pro-capitalism, right back to the days of Adam Smith and David Ricardo. There is no “hijacking”. We don’t live in a world where anti-capitalists are anything other than extremists, thankfully. The only countries where that is not the case are basket cases like North Korea and Cuba.

Secondly, on a similar note, while terms like “left” and “right” vary a lot according to context, the Democrats would be considered centre-left in any democratic country. Stuff like Medicare For All and the Green New Deal would be considered far-left in every democratic country. Calling them “centre right” is a level of political illiteracy on par with the people who call Mike Pence a leftist.

Thirdly, while I appreciate that simplifications are sometimes necessary, your definitions of neoliberal and neoconservative are a little simplistic. For starters, neoliberalism is fundamentally a progressive ideology, while neoconservatism is a conservative one that is largely defined by opposition to the 1960s counter-culture. The Democratic Party is not neoconservative. Someone like Rand Paul is neither neoliberal (as he is a conservative) nor neoconservative (as he is a dove). Meanwhile someone like Joe Biden is neither neoliberal (because he is a social democrat) nor a neoconservative (because he is a progressive).

That appears awfully close to trying to incite someone to "personally attack" another, given that the target(s) will likely take offence at being named and may consider (even with supplied\referenced\linked evidence) their inclusion on a list as described to be "offensive", and an "attack" on them...As well as being a good source for a "flame-war".

Even in the event that the potential person(s) who may have been "named" have provided "indemnification" prior to it being published, that would not remove the risk of those people later removing this "indemnification" from their post, then having someone lodge a "personal attack" report on their behalf, nor the risk that, having removed the "indemnification", they may start claiming "victimhood", either in this thread, or elsewhere on the site.

I'm not even sure a PM would be safe - both regarding site rules as well as the possibility of it being used by the recipient (should a name\names included be "friends"\allies of the recipient - or even the recipient themselves) to start a campaign of harrasment targeted towards the source of the list.

Much better for people to look at their actions\reactions and consider if they are likely to be the type of person who may be liable for inclusion on a list of people who "bully others with different opinions under the guise of "they're wrong for thinking differently, they offend me, therefore I can bully them in retaliation", and if they feel they may be, then to seek to correct this behaviour on their own.

Having said that, I'm happy for "ezbzbfcg2" to PM me with examples of where they believe I may have acted in this way, should they believe I have, to allow for reflection\"attitude adjustment" (should it be required)...And having few "allies"\"friends" on the site (the down side of working to ensure both "sides" get a fair hearing, rather than one side having all the "air-time"), the risk of any form of "retalliation" is minimal

The issue raised was one of bullying.

I suggest we stick the to topic and go back to my original question asking for actual evidence (rather than opinions) of how France's culture is under threat from so called American "leftism"

Courtesy of the Daily Mail, the newspaper that wanted the UK to side with Hitler...

I'm curious from a historical perspective why both the Daily mail and Enoch Powell survived unscathed and infact prospered after the war?

I'm sure that could be addressed in a seperate thread should it be of importance to you...

How about we follow the suggestion contained within an earlier post, from around 10 minutes prior to this "detour":