Controversial topics are now against the rules...

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I'm going to break a little bit of WP etiquette here and link to another thread elsewhere on the board because I think it's very important that a line be drawn in the sand here. The thread is a conversation between myself and the mods concerning a deleted thread that broke no rules, and the mods seem to be saying that they can decide that ANYTHING is offensive and delete the thread, and presumably punish people for breaking this "stealth rule". I don't care what anyone may think of me personally or the topic of the deleted thread, the principle is what's important here, especially for PPR where divisive topics are the norm. Please go to the WrongPlanet.net forum and let the mods know that this sort of thought policing is not acceptable to the membership here!

Freedom of speech should be permitted, especially here in PPR where all the other controversial topics are relegated.

If it was Assasination Politics....then yeah I don't get what was controversial unless I missed something....

Probably just the word "Assassination" in the title. I didn't get a chance to read it, but I know the look before you leap mentality of decision making of which people in authority are prone to. Heck, they might have just seen the first three letters of the title and one of them thought they were being talked about.

Advocating murder is not going to be allowed on WP... now or ever.

I removed your topic, and I will continue to remove any similar posts. If you are really in favor of violence, go promote it somewhere else.

I think there is a similar reaction to the mere presence of the word "sexuality" in a thread title ( except when posted in the "adult" forum, even when it is a perfectly "decent" discussion ) , and the combination of the words "sex" and "money" almost anywhere.

I have been guilty of this kind of knee-jerk reaction myself, as Ragtime could testify, having been responsible ( I asked mods to move it ) for a thread of his being shifted from women's discussion to adult because I went ballistic about what seemed to me to be gratuitous, and deeply dodgy, references to a certain kind of sexual activity, which it took me a long and heated discussion with several people on the thread to work through. Was most apologetic once realised my error, but it taught me how my first reactions to anything written, ( which could seem like it should be fairly easy to handle, but to which I am very sensitive ), are not to be trusted.

I actually wonder whether the recent trend on the part of some mods towards trying to explain in a reasonable manner things which are not actually logical or clear or "perfectly"/absolutely reasonable is actually making mod actions seem less acceptable. I seem to remember Quatermass and others in the past just stomping around being openly dictatorial, no-holds barred pissed off, and never deigning to explain themselves, ... and perhaps that is more honest/clear than dressing up small-group-policy decisions as anything other than personal decisions.

It's interesting. I think I have less trouble dealing with pure authoritarian prerogative which I can stomp around feeling outraged and put upon about rather than someone in power being oh so sweetly reasonable etc. I would almost rather that mods did not attempt to justify their decisions, because if it's really a question of logic then we need days to discuss it, and it is difficult to accept the other person, the mod(s), not continuing to participate, as equals, in the discussion. Better the boot without any pretence at logic or reasonability, than this mature, sensible, parental style explanation which smacks of the intolerable suggestion that mods necessarily know better than us.

For instance this remark: is worth a debate in its own right, on the same lines as those on abortion. "Abortion is murder" say some, and yet no abortion thread has ever been banned except when the levels of personal abuse and flaming got too high. "Meat is Murder" say others. Capital punishment is murder, say I. War is mass murder.

I think it should be ok, even encouraged, to blow off steam about removed and deleted threads; eg. people shouldn't feel frightened of discussing the decision to death, but mods shouldn't feel that they have to reply to any such criticism, ( unless they are prepared to do so for days!! ! and as equals ) because mod decisions are only ever those of a few individuals based on their personal tastes, politics, beliefs, etc, totally fallible, totally personal, completely partial, impossible to defend on the basis of logic.
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Last edited by ouinon on 29 Oct 2009, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Having said that; it would be useful, for guidance, ... if it really is true that "advocating murder is not going to be allowed on WP .. now or ever ", even as a subject of "mere" discussion, that this should be clearly stated in the rules/terms so that we know where we are! And put in a cautionary note about the discussion of "sexual excitement and money" too!

When I joined, in July 2007, the only taboo subject was "excretory functions". I wonder how many items there would be in that list if it was updated officially now.

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I think this thread is controversial.

Just thinking that Swift's satirical "Modest Proposal" for solving the Irish famine, ( which upset a lot of people because it cleverly expressed some embarrassing deeply felt beliefs among the english about catholic irish families "overbreeding", and powerfully exposed the existing english landlord "predations" in Ireland, etc ), which suggested that they began eating babies, would be deemed unacceptable material on WP, if this really is WP policy;


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And although from a safe 200 (?) years distance mods might argue that Swift's essay was satire, and therefore "different", I would suggest that when I, for example, have written, or spoken, satirically, it can seem most deeply in earnest, being the most pointed expression that I could find of my shock or disgust at something, and that it can take time, and/or detachment, for people to see such reactions for satire. In fact I think that this sort of ( shocking, exaggerated, and deeply satirical ), expression of outrage and horror at social injustice is a peculiarly aspie thing!

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The whole issue of "freedom of speech" on private forums has already been adequately explained. I don't get to use your house as a billboard for my views, without your express permission. You are exercising you freedom of speech simply by choosing a publisher.

While there are times there is valid discussion on when killing is and isn't murder, assination isn't really one of them. Assisination is murder, of a type that I would be shocked to find anyone here advocating as morally justified. If you try hard enough, you can find moral ambiguity in almost anything. But there are some issues for which that takes quite some effort, and this is one of them. When you have to reach so far to get into the grays, the grays carry a lot less weight.

If you'd rather I just stomp, I can do that. Forgive me for trying to put a little transparency and understanding into the process.

Is Assination Politics really a topic you find appropriate for Wrong Planet? You, personally? If yes, I'd like to know why.

I was not advocating murder, I was discussing an idea and what people might think of the ramification of it. If advocating murder is against the rules (which I was not doing anyways), better start banning all those people who call for child molesters, animal abusers and George W to be killed, that would be about a 1/4 of the board...

Honestly, Dox, I think you are breaking more than ettiquette. Read the TOS. If you want to see how far you can push before you get yourself banned, be my guest, but don't blame the moderators when, after you push on a rule that is quite clear and has been around a long time, someone takes the opportunity to push the button on you. I think you're an interesting guy, even though we don't agree on much, and I'd actually be disappointed to see that happen. In two days you didn't get the support from the membership you seemed to be hoping for in the WP Discussion thread, so you decided to add more visibility, is that what this is? You have a little trouble knowing when to let go. That time is now. Is that blunt and stompy enough for everyone?

The idea itself, however, was basically an end run around pushing the trigger oneself in an act of murder. We edit a lot of posts, maybe we miss some, but this thread was pretty out there, and I felt and still feel that it could, potentially, create legal issues for this site. That isn't a professional opinion, since I am not a lawyer, but I don't have one at my beck and call to consult with on it, so I have to take the easy option and remove the risk. Do you wish to create legal issues, or even just PR issues, for a site that is supposed to be for support and information on Aspergers? You've listed many places that discuss that concept, you don't NEED to do so here. Some controversial subjects go right into the heart of issues that our membership confronts every day. We allow those, even when it is distasteful to some of us, personally. But this one? It doesn't.

Time to let go, Dox.

I am going to lock this thread. This is not the place. If someone has a viewpoint, they may post it under WP Discussion, in the thread already started there. At some point that thread may get locked, as well, but not today by me, at least.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 29 Oct 2009, 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.