Space Battles & Physics

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24 Dec 2009, 12:01 am

Rather cool set of videos I found about physics and space battles. After watching these, I would like to pose a question.

The Physics of Starship Battles- Explosive Decompression
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaFLn3b0juk
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaFLn3b0juk[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Battles- Laws of Motion and Momentum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GihlZ0Mnq-k
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GihlZ0Mnq-k[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Firepower- Phasers & Disintregration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRVwpR2a7ME
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRVwpR2a7ME[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Battles: Energy, Waves, and Sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Spz-wOiwpo
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Spz-wOiwpo[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Battles: Lasers and Kinetic Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AV5aY7HYAk
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AV5aY7HYAk[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Battles: Gravity and Potential Energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0A1dgpIfws
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0A1dgpIfws[/youtube]

The Physics of Starship Battles: Artificial Gravity and Centrifugal Force
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mwIHCBrjo
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7mwIHCBrjo[/youtube]

After these have been watched, then here is the question to answer:

Is it possible to have space industrialization and even militarization under current technology?

Certainly I know that often people blame such random things, such as religion or oatmeal, for our slowing of the space program, but I think that a few real causes exist for the slowness of our pace. 1. The Columbia accident, in recent history. 2. The supposed economy problems in the USA, which don't affect Russia. And 3. That there is no tension between countries; there is no more space race. Without our competing with the Soviets, it just became less important.

Sand
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24 Dec 2009, 12:07 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

It all depends upon your priorities.

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24 Dec 2009, 12:15 am

Sand wrote:

It all depends upon your priorities.

My priorities? Marrying my fiancee. Finishing college in the field of Accounting. Getting a paying career. Paying off debt. Going back to college to study an interesting subject. Those type, as related to my life personally?

Or things I'd like to see within my lifetime? Seeing a skyladder constructed. The first colony on Mars established. Etc?

Or things for society in general that are supposedly prerequisite to doing anything cool? Such as, supposedly, killing off all but 100 million of Earth's population. Eliminating religion. Etc? Things of that sort?

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24 Dec 2009, 1:40 am

For all the priorities, or things we need to get in order according to Gene Roddenberry, the question still remains:

At our present state of scientific knowledge, and even current technological levels, can we do some of these cool things?

Can we explore space?

Can we have manned interplanetary spaceflight?

Can we establish colonies on other worlds?

Can we send ships like the Daedalus to other star systems?

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24 Dec 2009, 1:51 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

I have been a science-fiction fan since reading H.G.Welles and Edgar Rice Burroughs and Jules Verne when I was 8 years old back in 1934 but sending people to Mars which is much less hospitable than Antarctica for a colony may have scientific value but there are none of the wonders there that John Carter encountered. Humanity has better try to save the wonders of this planet than explore all those dead rocks out there. And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

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24 Dec 2009, 2:11 am

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

War is not a goal, but it is inevitable. It will happen no matter what. But as for Mars having no potential benefit, this lifeless rock happens to have iron and other minerals. Industrialization is quite a possibility at least. But if your concern is for the wonders of the world, and assuming that humans adversely affect them, then why would you even have a problem with reducing human interaction with the wonders?

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24 Dec 2009, 2:11 am

One reason I can see for the slowness is that certain people are milking and stretching science to benefit their careers.

For example, for a 50 year old scientist, he wants to prolong his projects(the sphere of his education/knowledge). To push space programs too fast would remove him from relevancy. Income, funding, tenure, prestige would all suffer.

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24 Dec 2009, 2:15 am

Sand wrote:

And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

Yeah, but think of all the funky war toys the generals can get for space wars!
Nothing like a shiny new gizmo to get the juices flowing, you know.

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24 Dec 2009, 2:24 am

Quote:

War is never inevitable. Unless you consider human stupidity unconquerable. On that I am a bit of an optimist.

The cost of shipping raw materials on interplanetary transportation is ludicrously expensive. The concept is beyond humor. The core of the Earth is molten iron and probably more accessible than Mars although there is plenty of that stuff on the surface on an economic basis.

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24 Dec 2009, 2:45 am

Fuzzy wrote:

Possibly that, to a degree. Making anything into a career will tend to encourage the holders of the career to argue for its continuation.

Some degree may have to do with how much emphasis is placed on biology and the general deficiencies of government run educational systems also.

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24 Dec 2009, 2:47 am

southwestforests wrote:

Sand wrote:

And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

Yeah, but think of all the funky war toys the generals can get for space wars!
Nothing like a shiny new gizmo to get the juices flowing, you know.

Though you are being sarcastic, yes gizmos are cool in and of themselves. I don't like the idea of killing anything, but I like guns and the ability to affect targets at a distance. I have a 5mW 532nm laser, and I find it cool to be able to see the beam of light. Do you actually have a problem with coolness?

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24 Dec 2009, 2:53 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

southwestforests wrote:

Sand wrote:

And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

Yeah, but think of all the funky war toys the generals can get for space wars!
Nothing like a shiny new gizmo to get the juices flowing, you know.

To be delighted with the tools of homicide and not with the homicide itself creates something of a problem, doesn't it?

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24 Dec 2009, 2:58 am

Sand wrote:

Quote:

Escape velocity can be a problem if it is made one. Under the presumption of "everything has to be done one way". Yes, in economics, when doing a point study you use the ceteris parabus assumptions to consider how altering one variable affects the whole in a given setting. However, there is no need to have ships ferrying back and forth constantly.

Also, the escape velocity from Earth is 11 km/s, whereas from Mars it is 5 km/s. So it would take less than half the fuel to leave Mars with a shipment than it would to bring an equivalent mass up from Earth's surface.

The mining, refineries, and perhaps even some spacecraft production could be on Mars' surface.

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24 Dec 2009, 3:03 am

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

southwestforests wrote:

Sand wrote:

And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

Yeah, but think of all the funky war toys the generals can get for space wars!
Nothing like a shiny new gizmo to get the juices flowing, you know.

To be delighted with the tools of homicide and not with the homicide itself creates something of a problem, doesn't it?

Why? To whom? To you?

Have you never admired the Romans? The Spartans?

An object is just an object. Calling it a "tool of homicide" is incorrect, because that assumes that that is its only purpose. It is not. Whether a weapon is used to kill, used to murder, used to intimidate others from causing harm, or used for recreation shooting Pepsi bottles all depends on the actions of the person holding it.

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24 Dec 2009, 4:25 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Also, the escape velocity from Earth is 11 km/s, whereas from Mars it is 5 km/s. So it would take less than half the fuel to leave Mars with a shipment than it would to bring an equivalent mass up from Earth's surface.

The mining, refineries, and perhaps even some spacecraft production could be on Mars' surface.

There is a solar orbit speed differential to deal with too.

But its still cheaper.

I'm thinking its more likely that as they develop the technology to mine mars, they will just say screw it and harvest asteroids and comets.

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24 Dec 2009, 4:52 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

southwestforests wrote:

Sand wrote:

And as for space wars, we seem to do pretty well right here for killing each other and at a great deal less cost.

Yeah, but think of all the funky war toys the generals can get for space wars!
Nothing like a shiny new gizmo to get the juices flowing, you know.

To be delighted with the tools of homicide and not with the homicide itself creates something of a problem, doesn't it?

No. An object is not just an object. Iran, in trying to produce atomic weapons, is well aware of that difference. And some guy with a loaded pistol in his pocket has an entirely different mental set to somebody carrying a bag of marshmallows. You cannot lightly dismiss the "actions of the person holding it".

And no, I do not admire the Romans or the Spartans. Interesting that someone professing the gentleness of Christianity might do so.

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