Bill Maher blasts Jon Stewart and false equivalencies

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Berlin
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07 Nov 2010, 12:20 am

‎"The message of the rally, as I heard it, was that if the media stopped
giving voice to the crazies on both sides, then maybe we could restore
sanity. It was all nonpartisan and urged cooperation with the moderates
on the other side forgetting that Obama tried that and found out...there
are no moderates on the other si...de. When Jon announced his rally, he
said the national conversation was dominated by people on the Right who
believe Obama's a Socialist and people on the Left who believe 9/11's an
inside job, but I can't name any Democratic leaders who think 9/11's an
inside job. But Republican leaders who think Obama's a Socialist? All
of them."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-GO8lxU ... r_embedded

Master_Pedant
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07 Nov 2010, 12:31 am

Glenn Greenwald started the trend.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE3KKRX9uE8[/youtube]

I've noticed ever since 2006 Jon Stewart seems to have increasingly become a cliche centrist.

PZ puts it best.

PZ Myers wrote:

The Rally for Tone
Category: Politics
Posted on: October 30, 2010 3:31 PM, by PZ Myers

I had the Stewart/Colbert rally on in the background most of today. There were funny bits, there were entertaining bits, I'm sure everyone there had a good time. It was a pleasant afternoon of entertainment on the mall.

But in the end, I was disappointed. It was also an afternoon of false equivalence, of civility fetishism, of nothing but a cry about the national tone, of a plea for moderation. And you can guess what I think of moderation.

Tom Paine wrote:

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.

I don't want moderation, especially when the only people who will listen to Stewart and Colbert are the people on our shared side of the political aisle. I can understand where they're coming from; people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin and Andrew Breitbart are poison, Fox News is a propaganda organ without bounds working for the far right-wing, we've got evangelical Christians demanding the installation of a theocracy, and on and on and on. But who, exactly, do Stewart and Colbert regard as the equivalent of Beck and Limbaugh on the left? Is it Rachel Maddow? Amy Goodman? Keith Olbermann?

Once again, we have someone bravely standing up and telling the people on their own side to stop being dicks, while being vague on the names and specifics.

...

So I'm at a loss about what we're supposed to do in the world according to Jon Stewart. Hey, all you people working for gay and lesbian equality, all you women asking for equal pay, all you workers trying to unionize, all you peaceniks trying to end the war in Afghanistan, all you nurses and doctors and clinic workers trying to maintain reproductive freedom and keep women alive, all you teachers trying to teach science and history without censorship, all you citizens trying to build a rational health care policy, all you scientists and doctors who want our country to progress in medical research, all you damned secularists who want to keep religion out of our schools and government, hey, hey, HEY, you! Tone it down. Quit making such a fuss. You're too loud. Shush. You're as crazy as the teabaggers if you think your principles are worth fighting for.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... r_tone.php

I'm sure Jon Stewart will be cowardly and hide behind his "I'm a comedian" gig when the critics come, but I think that's getting old.

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DeaconBlues
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07 Nov 2010, 1:58 am

Well, Keith Olbermann has apparently become too left-wing politicized for MSNBC...

Personally, I agree with Dr. David Brin - the two-hundred-year-old "left-right" axis established in France after the French Revolution is entirely inadequate to express modern-day sociopolitical divisions. In fact, there may be no simple one-dimensional axis that would be adequate - but if you have to establish one, perhaps the best choice would be between those who believe that there was once, in the past, a Golden Age to which modern men can only look back wistfully, and those who believe that our Golden Age is yet to come, and look forward eagerly.

In this division, one can plainly see plenty of people on both the "right" and "left" wings who belong to the Look Backward group - the teabaggers who long for the (mythical) country they've "lost", the old-school liberals who fetishize primitive cultures as being "more in tune with the Earth", the robber barons who wish for a return of the days before mere laborers were protected... The Look Forward group has representatives from both sides, as well - but they tend to be too busy working to bring the future they want to see into existence to get a lot of press coverage. From the fans of Jerry Pournelle and Robert Heinlein who strive to achieve ever-greater heights of technology and knowledge of the universe's workings, to the alternative-energy mavens who have so coated Germany with household solar cells that the power grid is threatening to be overwhelmed by supply, rather than demand, they're out there, quietly changing the world while the Look-Backwards panic about the changes.

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skafather84
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07 Nov 2010, 4:37 am

Bill Maher's video on the matter was great but the problem is that he acts contrarian and he doesn't really work to explain why the other side works other than when he gets on about his legalize marijuana point and even then he misses the entire bigger point on the matter and really misses to explain what's really going on economically with it. Illicit trade is a bubble market that the government can always tap into for extra resources but it's still an inflated market where the value doesn't equate its listed cost and hurts the market overall.

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Vexcalibur
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07 Nov 2010, 8:18 am

Berlin wrote:

You assume that Right = republicans and Left = democrats.

Which is not freaking true.

There are right extremists among republican leadership, but that does not mean that left extremism in the US does not exist just because they don't lead the democrats. It does exist.

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number5
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07 Nov 2010, 10:02 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

I'm sure Jon Stewart will be cowardly and hide behind his "I'm a comedian" gig when the critics come, but I think that's getting old.

But it's true. He is not now, nor ever has he been a leader of the left. He is, first and foremost, a comedian. His amusing rants are most often directed at the media - not the right specifically. Back when Clinton was in office, he had quite a field day with the media and the left. It just so happens that most of the obstructions to journalism these days are coming from the right, which is why his show appears to have a leftish tilt. He has always been a supporter of rational thought and reason. He has always supported the idea of people coming together. He is a decent and respectful man who has never believed it was his place to be taking sides. This is, afterall, what journalism is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be objective. I find it sad that a comedian is the only one who seems to understand that these days.

As for Bill Maher, I like him a lot, too. He provides a very different form of entertainment than Jon Stewart. He IS an opinion guy. I often agree with his opinion, but not on this. Since when is it Jon Stewart's job to be a leader for the left? That's not what he's about. They are two very different people with two very different messages.

Berlin
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07 Nov 2010, 11:26 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

Berlin wrote:

You assume that Right = republicans and Left = democrats.

Which is not freaking true.

Not at all.

Quote:

There are right extremists among republican leadership, but that does not mean that left extremism in the US does not exist just because they don't lead the democrats. It does exist.

Point is, the Republicans are much further to the right than the Democrats are to the left. The far right is much more powerful than the far left, whose influence in the US is microscopic.

Master_Pedant
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07 Nov 2010, 1:37 pm

number5 wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

I'm sure Jon Stewart will be cowardly and hide behind his "I'm a comedian" gig when the critics come, but I think that's getting old.

I think this is great.

"I'm just a funny man, don't hold me to any standard. That being said, let me make shots at the media and cry when they punch back 'hey, hey, I'm just a comedian, even though I commentate and criticize so much news stories'." - Jon Stewarts unconcious thoughts

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Vexcalibur
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07 Nov 2010, 6:22 pm

Quote:

Point is, the Republicans are much further to the right than the Democrats are to the left. The far right is much more powerful than the far left, whose influence in the US is microscopic.

And that's probably true. But is it a reason not to call the extreme left out? I

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Master_Pedant
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07 Nov 2010, 10:29 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Quote:

Point is, the Republicans are much further to the right than the Democrats are to the left. The far right is much more powerful than the far left, whose influence in the US is microscopic.

And that's probably true. But is it a reason not to call the extreme left out? I

The problem, of course, is in Jon Stewart's selection of who the "extremists" on the left are. Mainly speaking, either people who are vocal in calling out ultraconservative BS (Keith Olbermann) or people who state the fact - true by definition - that George W. Bush is a war criminal. Maybe if Stewart could actually find an equivalent to "FEMA Camps" Beck or "Death Panel" Palin, but insinuating that MSNBC is the left equivalent of Fox is intellectually dishonest BS. So too, by the way, is hiding behind the "I'm a commedian, don't hold me up to journalistic standards" when criticized for your mistakes. Jon Stewart, if you recall, was fooled by the Con Artists when it came to the whole "ACORN hooker gate" manufactroversy.

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codarac
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08 Nov 2010, 5:13 pm

Berlin wrote:

To call Obama a socialist is to make quite a vague "accusation".
To say 9/11 was an inside job is a much more damning and controversial accusation.
Perhaps that's the real "false equivalence" here.

Berlin wrote:

Point is, the Republicans are much further to the right than the Democrats are to the left. The far right is much more powerful than the far left, whose influence in the US is microscopic.

Certain opinions that are deemed "far right" today were deemed perfectly normal only a few decades ago in the US (as in Britain and in most of the West). This surely suggests that (going by the conventional left-wing/right-wing model, limited though I think it is) politics has been moving in a left-liberal direction for decades (capitalist economics notwithstanding - capitalism can clearly quite easily co-exist with social liberalism), which suggests that for decades liberals have been leading and conservatives grudgingly following. I don't understand why more people can't see this.

Anyway, on the subject of Bill Maher, here is one of my favourite Bill Maher clips. Mr "Politically Incorrect" Bill Maher interviews CIA analyst Michael Scheuer and is almost lost for words.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZbzs5BwBLA[/youtube]

Inuyasha
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08 Nov 2010, 5:18 pm

Berlin wrote:

Point is, the Republicans are much further to the right than the Democrats are to the left. The far right is much more powerful than the far left, whose influence in the US is microscopic.

In a pig's eye.

Quite frankly, the Republican Leadership is a lot closer to the center than the Democrats. Fact is the Dem's still don't even understand why they lost. I didn't see Republicans calling fellow American citizens the enemy.

Vexcalibur
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08 Nov 2010, 5:29 pm

Some republicans don't understand why they won either. I bet they actually think they won because of ideology and not simply because the economy was doing wrong...

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ruveyn
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08 Nov 2010, 5:35 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Some republicans don't understand why they won either. I bet they actually think they won because of ideology and not simply because the economy was doing wrong...

Republicans and Democrats are both clueless but in different ways.

ruveyn

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08 Nov 2010, 5:35 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

Some republicans don't understand why they won either. I bet they actually think they won because of ideology and not simply because the economy was doing wrong...

Republicans and Democrats are both clueless but in different ways.

ruveyn

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08 Nov 2010, 5:48 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

There are right extremists among republican leadership, but that does not mean that left extremism in the US does not exist just because they don't lead the democrats. It does exist.

If there are left extremists they are a minuscule voice and are certainly not represented in the mainstream, the way right extremists are. The only examples I can think of that could be considered left extremists are groups like the ELF (which as far as I know no longer exists). What left extremists are you aware of?

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