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Vexcalibur
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03 Dec 2010, 12:41 pm

Crazy stuff actually:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/whe ... -go-along/


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Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 12:47 pm

I'm guessing it's Sweden's attempt to get him into custody before someone like the Russians end up simply putting a hit out on him.



Asp-Z
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03 Dec 2010, 12:52 pm

If he can get out of this, these governments will have one hell of a libel case to deal with...



DaWalker
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03 Dec 2010, 12:53 pm

New Swedish definition of rape

Actually, there is an internationally recognized standard.
If you have enough money, we'll charge anyone with anything.
Such "suspects" are usually built up as emotionally unstable in the process.
That way the suicide and or crimes committed while in custody are justifiably accepted.
This is only hypothetical of any coincidences in the present future of disaster recovery politics.



Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 12:55 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
If he can get out of this, these governments will have one hell of a libel case to deal with...


Not really, the Swedish government could claim that the man's life was in danger. Other Governments can accuse him of espionage or trafficking in stolen goods and those charges would be legit.



Vexcalibur
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03 Dec 2010, 12:58 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
I'm guessing it's Sweden's attempt to get him into custody before someone like the Russians end up simply putting a hit out on him.
It is not like the Russian were so stupid.

I mean, oh let's put money and forces in killing this guy! It is not like if he was dead some other internet journalist would release whatever document is leaked to him. And it is not like it was easier just to make sure not to have your most embarrassing secrets accessible to people that can leak them to the internet... Because the alternative, to put a hit on every journalist that would release whatever linked document is given to them, is going to be a lot more costly.

People forget that most of the media is loving the thing and re-releasing the published cables themselves. Because they are after-all journalists just like Assange, and this sort of stuff pays their bill.


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Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 1:01 pm

I'm sure the Russians would make it look like a typical traffic accident with some sort of accident later happening in the hospital where the man just happens to be poisoned.



Vexcalibur
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03 Dec 2010, 1:03 pm

But that's such a cost ineffective idea.

Killing all journalists that would release KGB secrets the second they receive them is going to cost a lot. Poison does not grow in trees.

If you are an evil Russian organization, here's a much easier way to protect your secrets: Kill the inside guy that will leak them.

We are so unnecessarily giving mythical aspects to Assange when he is just a journalist in front of a web site. Most media outlets would do the same he does if they received leaked documents that are compromising. Heck, I can totally picture Fox News releasing leaked documents that prove Obama's administration is corrupt.


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Last edited by Vexcalibur on 03 Dec 2010, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 1:03 pm

True, they have added motive to make it look like the CIA killed the guy.



Vexcalibur
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03 Dec 2010, 1:06 pm

Then CIA has motive to protect his life.


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Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 1:14 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Then CIA has motive to protect his life.


Actually they have a motive to kill him because he is putting their lives in jeopardy.



LKL
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03 Dec 2010, 4:00 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
I'm guessing it's Sweden's attempt to get him into custody before someone like the Russians end up simply putting a hit out on him.

...I'm sure the Russians would make it look like a typical traffic accident with some sort of accident later happening in the hospital where the man just happens to be poisoned.


...Or the Swedes want to get a hold of him so that he can then be extradited to the U.S. (which is what he appears to be afraid of).

also, the Russians don't seem to mind offing people in very obvious ways.
Inuyasha wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Then CIA has motive to protect his life.


Actually they have a motive to kill him because he is putting their lives in jeopardy.

The pentagon itself has admitted that no one was harmed by the prior two releases; the current one is embarassing for the diplomatic corps, not the CIA or military.

Quite frankly, this whole case is disturbing not only because of the idea that journalists can be targeted for telling the truth, but that the concept of 'rape' can be so twisted into meaningless for a political pot-shot. I'm sure that women who have actually been raped would be absolutely disgusted and mortified to hear their experiences equated to consentual sex without a condom.



skafather84
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03 Dec 2010, 4:45 pm

LKL wrote:
the current one is embarassing for the diplomatic corps, not the CIA or military.



Actually, within the cables, it's come out that the requests for all the biometric info and whatnot from diplomats came from the CIA so it could potentially embarrass them a bit.


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visagrunt
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03 Dec 2010, 6:28 pm

What a completely inane assessment.

Any party to sexual intercourse is free to withdraw consent at any time, for any reason. "Stop touching me!" is an order that no person is permitted to ignore. The question of whether or not a condom was used, and whether or not it broke is entirely incidental to the factual question of whether consent was withdrawn and the withdrawal of consent was communicated to the other party.

It also bears noting that these are allegations, untested in a Court. It is not the proper function of the police to make an assessment of the guilt or innocence of an accused. The function of the police is to present the evidence to a prosecutor, who must make a professional judgement about whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction before taking the matter forward to trial.

The suggestion that Sweden is, "making it up as they go along," is simply inflammatory. "Rape," as it is conventionally understood at common law does indeed involve violence. In fact, rape has an affirmative requirement of penetration, which caused many countries to eliminate rape as an offence and replace it with the much more meaningful, "sexual assault" that allows for the criminalization of a broader range of unacceptable behaviour.

Perhaps these charges are a canard. Perhaps the women involved are liars. But it is not for me, you or the media to make that decision, but rather a court of competent jurisdiction.


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03 Dec 2010, 7:06 pm

visagrunt wrote:
What a completely inane assessment.

Any party to sexual intercourse is free to withdraw consent at any time, for any reason. "Stop touching me!" is an order that no person is permitted to ignore. The question of whether or not a condom was used, and whether or not it broke is entirely incidental to the factual question of whether consent was withdrawn and the withdrawal of consent was communicated to the other party.

It also bears noting that these are allegations, untested in a Court. It is not the proper function of the police to make an assessment of the guilt or innocence of an accused. The function of the police is to present the evidence to a prosecutor, who must make a professional judgement about whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction before taking the matter forward to trial.

The suggestion that Sweden is, "making it up as they go along," is simply inflammatory. "Rape," as it is conventionally understood at common law does indeed involve violence. In fact, rape has an affirmative requirement of penetration, which caused many countries to eliminate rape as an offence and replace it with the much more meaningful, "sexual assault" that allows for the criminalization of a broader range of unacceptable behaviour.

Perhaps these charges are a canard. Perhaps the women involved are liars. But it is not for me, you or the media to make that decision, but rather a court of competent jurisdiction.


Common Law is of English origin. Sweden does not operate under Common Law.

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03 Dec 2010, 8:26 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Other Governments can accuse him of espionage or trafficking in stolen goods and those charges would be legit.

No, they would not. It would be a stretch to convict the leaker with espionage, but the media outlets who publicize information made available to them are perfectly within their legal rights. Unless you propose shutting down the New York Times, the Guardian, Der Spiegel, Le Monde, the BBC, and every other freaking news outlet in the Western world that is publishing and republishing these stories, you have absolutely no case for going after Wikileaks.


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