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Philologos
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30 Nov 2010, 1:40 pm

Orwell, I looked into the Poe's Law thing. While I have a bit of issue with LAW [I can get literalminded], I recognize these terms are commonly used rather loosely - in Ling, Meinhof's Rule is the same thing as the Ganda Law, for example.

Still, I recognize the phenomenon - Swift's Modest Proposal comes to mind.

Anyhow, I would appreciate, if it is not too much trouble, your casting an eye over recent exchanges, Phil to Sand, particularly the dwarf references in the desire to live discussion.

Would you say HE is there "pulling a Poe"? I am the at least one person who can't be certain.



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30 Nov 2010, 1:48 pm

...there is a PM function on here, you know.

I don't think either of them was "pulling a Poe," although I have no idea what the dwarf references are about, so maybe Phil was. Sand is just being his usual sarcastic self.


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30 Nov 2010, 2:36 pm

Thanks - yes, I know about the PM, but I tend to use it minimally - unreasonable personal quirk, I realize, but I cannot get out of associating it with a stealth move and posible invasion of your privacy. Sort of like phone calls.

No, MY dwarf reference was not part of the Poe phenomenon - just an equivalent of modem handshaking, trying to explore what channels of communication may be possible. Reference is to a passage in C S Lewis The Last Battle.



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30 Nov 2010, 3:52 pm

Orwell wrote:
...there is a PM function on here, you know.

I don't think either of them was "pulling a Poe," although I have no idea what the dwarf references are about, so maybe Phil was. Sand is just being his usual sarcastic self.


Like I said in the other thread, Sand and I are often on opposite sides of the debate, especially when it comes to the nature of reality (or whether there IS a reality), God/Jesus, and religion. He has a characteristic sarcasm, and we wouldn't want it any other way. His more abrasive comments are intended to be offensive, and he is a master of derailing points with a single comment.

Don't take it personally. Sand has actually mellowed a little since he and I got into it over something, and I understand that he was a lot meaner before I came here. Agree or disagree, Sand has worlds of experience over most of us here and is a good person to get to know. I may not agree with a lot of things he says, but I have come to respect him.



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30 Nov 2010, 4:07 pm

I will respect anyone who will speak straight to me,

I am unlikely to respect someone who prefers amusement to discussion.

My biggest problem with Sand, to say sooth, is that I have myself a history of being sarcastically dismissive, in part honestly come by as a family trait, and it is a major effort to keep myself on track and out of the dungheap.



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30 Nov 2010, 7:43 pm

Philologos wrote:
I will respect anyone who will speak straight to me,

I am unlikely to respect someone who prefers amusement to discussion.

My biggest problem with Sand, to say sooth, is that I have myself a history of being sarcastically dismissive, in part honestly come by as a family trait, and it is a major effort to keep myself on track and out of the dungheap.


Since I seem to be the major problem here let me explain. A good deal of the matter submitted for discussion at this site is so replete with nonsense that I merely make extensions of the proposals to demonstrate how foolish they are when taken seriously. It is a form of personal amusement to see how offended people become when their ideas are explored to demonstrate their obvious inconsistency with accepted and acknowledged understanding. As a base concept please be assured that I feel all knowledge deserves to be questioned as deeply as imagination can permit and especially scientifically accepted truth. Religion is so replete with fragile proposals that one moves into it fully filled with wonder how sane people can even minimally concede there is any value there.
The dwarf thing was a funny running gag not to be taken seriously and as a matter of fact, nothing I say is to be taken very seriously. My participation here is a sort of Alice-in-Wonderland romp through a jungle of wild nonsense and the delight I discover in lifting the intellectual rocks and seeing the funny crawly ideas emerge is that of a field naturalist confirming that the world of humans will never become pragmatically sane.



Philologos
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30 Nov 2010, 10:52 pm

So fine - everything is to be questioned. The biggest things at least daily. I totally concur. What passes for science broadly defined, not excluding the slightly out of synch science theology.

If the thinker does NOT do so, he will soon or late lead himself into a pit by the nose folloowing a circular or descending not ascendinf spiral.

Yes. AND yes there is a whole lot of non-thinking going on.

But - leave us distinguish. It was not the way of Socrates [if we can trust Plato to come close to the facts] to dance around thumbing his nose. It is possible - perhaps desirable - to make a step in the direction of suggesting or modelling thinking.

You have claimed - and you are an honorable man - to feel for the rape victim and those suffering from the God virus. It is hard to see how your amusements realize your sympathy.

For me - my reaction is twofold: One, compassionate anger - your Bandar-Log act suggests that your psyche is not in a good place [is psyche within or without your worldview? If out, go for mental function].

The other is puzzlement. Take it if you will as a sign of limited mental function, but I am handicapped in social interaction in that I require - as I try to send - fairly clear messages. I will filter the flow, I may encode so as to communicate with only some within hearing, but [except for the occasional rather broad Swiftian modest proposition] what I send is straight.

The dwarf references you say - running joke. I did not do not get the joke - allee same like the gent with his list of millionaires.

No, I am not a Spartan dwarf ,millionaire. Thanks for asking. Wish I were.



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30 Nov 2010, 10:55 pm

Damnit, I thought PhiloLogos was going to ask Orwell whether he's a theist, agnostic, or agnostic theist!


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30 Nov 2010, 11:36 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Damnit, I thought PhiloLogos was going to ask Orwell whether he's a theist, agnostic, or agnostic theist!

All three, I suppose? In a strict sense I am agnostic about everything that is not directly derived from the Zermelo-Fraenkel axioms, and that includes religious questions.


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30 Nov 2010, 11:49 pm

Philologos wrote:
So fine - everything is to be questioned. The biggest things at least daily. I totally concur. What passes for science broadly defined, not excluding the slightly out of synch science theology.

If the thinker does NOT do so, he will soon or late lead himself into a pit by the nose folloowing a circular or descending not ascendinf spiral.

Yes. AND yes there is a whole lot of non-thinking going on.

But - leave us distinguish. It was not the way of Socrates [if we can trust Plato to come close to the facts] to dance around thumbing his nose. It is possible - perhaps desirable - to make a step in the direction of suggesting or modelling thinking.

You have claimed - and you are an honorable man - to feel for the rape victim and those suffering from the God virus. It is hard to see how your amusements realize your sympathy.

For me - my reaction is twofold: One, compassionate anger - your Bandar-Log act suggests that your psyche is not in a good place [is psyche within or without your worldview? If out, go for mental function].

The other is puzzlement. Take it if you will as a sign of limited mental function, but I am handicapped in social interaction in that I require - as I try to send - fairly clear messages. I will filter the flow, I may encode so as to communicate with only some within hearing, but [except for the occasional rather broad Swiftian modest proposition] what I send is straight.

The dwarf references you say - running joke. I did not do not get the joke - allee same like the gent with his list of millionaires.

No, I am not a Spartan dwarf ,millionaire. Thanks for asking. Wish I were.


We are two individuals attempting to make sense of a world where sense is rarely valued or even useful. Finns in general are congenial decent people but I am about as integrated into the milieu here as any street sparrow and I am far beyond the age of any commercial value. I am daily amazed and delighted that I am tolerated. As much as I find Plato interesting he was, through no fault of his own, terribly ignorant and his values were rejected even by his own contemporaries, considering his final demise. We somewhat demented individuals who stick needles into common concepts like mischievous kids puncturing balloons for the joy of the minor explosion resulting are never popular and lucky to evade the law. I find the few local wild animals far more amenable to my overtures than the people and this has been true throughout my life in New York City, Paris, Berlin, Oak Ridge Tennessee, Tel Aviv and finally here in Helsinki. Although a few medical body scans have firmly identified me as human I have never felt at home in human society since common human ideals and goals seem to me pretty senseless and very frequently frightfully callous and vicious for me to adopt.. I hold no ill will for you or others here, merely impatience and sorrow and some anger that simple obvious good sense fails to pervade.



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01 Dec 2010, 1:58 am

Well, I will accept that with gratitude as as close to being in clear as I get from most. Reading between and perpendicular to your lines I am inclined to suspect that our wave forms are both [conceivably even equally] out of phase relative to the norm for our respective styles, but you are AM where I am FM [vice versa if it makes a difference to you, it is trivial to me.

I have lucked out, having gradually [starting from about my 33rd year] located scattered members of my own species [I maintain I am human and the majority are the aliens],