America: Centre range.

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03 Apr 2011, 7:39 pm

Has the center of the right-left political center moved left? Is the left party now the 'establishment'(nothing wrong with this btw, being the establishment is only a problem when you refuse to yield to more popular non-establishment views)?

This is stemming from something I saw on reddit(and I'm posting it now as opposed to later cause I'm bored) so my question may bit more ill defined than usual. If you see something relative just provide your own definition and point it out so no one(or me) flounders.

Inuyasha
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03 Apr 2011, 7:41 pm

ikorack wrote:

The left is only the center of the country in their fondest dreams, we saw how the American people rejected the radical leftists in November 2010, because the liberals thought they didn't have to maintain their charade any longer.

ikorack
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03 Apr 2011, 8:13 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Do not try and act like last years election turned out the way they did for any reason other than Obama's incompetence, it makes you look foolish.

Could the rest of you ignore this post(And any of his responses to this post) it would suck to have my thread derailed so early.

Also your statements have nothing to do with my question, you didn't even make a comparison of political environments which is required to answer my question.

AstroGeek
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03 Apr 2011, 8:27 pm

Oh. Oops. I walked into a thread full of irritating right-wingers. I'll just leave now.

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03 Apr 2011, 9:00 pm

ikorack wrote:

I think that the democrats have been the estabishment party for good or ill for the last 7 decades.
the house was control by them from 45 to 93 save one year but to call them left is laughable.
There has been a shift republican-ward since then. the dems have controled the house for only three of years since then 93.
so my answer is the dems are the traditional conservative establishment but the new establishment seem to be red.

If the establishment ment is the media they seem to be slower to march to the right than rest of the country.
but then news-media tend to be conservative (meaning resitant to change).

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03 Apr 2011, 9:44 pm

ikorack wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

The democrats lost because thy followed Obama's insane agenda like rats following the Pied Piper.

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JakobVirgil
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03 Apr 2011, 9:51 pm

John_Browning wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

The democrats lost because thy followed Obama's insane agenda like rats following the Pied Piper.

the shift came in 1993 are you sure it was Obamas fault? he was a lecturer University of Chicago Law School at the time

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Master_Pedant
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03 Apr 2011, 10:26 pm

The Centre has shifted dramatically, obscenely, to the Right in America. It started shifting rightwards once FDR died, shifted more significantly rightwards in the 1970s, and exploded from there on in thanks partially to the forces of neoliberal globalization.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9t2YErecWg[/youtube]

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03 Apr 2011, 10:31 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

sure but it took a dogleg in 93.

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03 Apr 2011, 10:44 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

sure but it took a dogleg in 93.

It more seems like by '93 most of the remaining Dixiecrats had finally hopped over the the Anti-Civil rights party.

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03 Apr 2011, 10:52 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

Errr.... I don't know. I mean, sure, a plurality of Americans identify as "conservative", but when it comes to deciding on policies like a larger/more targeted stimulus, the public option, and Don't Ask, Don't Tell, most Americans support centre-left policies.

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03 Apr 2011, 10:57 pm

ikorack wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Do not try and act like last years election turned out the way they did for any reason other than Obama's incompetence, it makes you look foolish.

I'm not just talking about Obama, I'm talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi...

ikorack wrote:

Could the rest of you ignore this post(And any of his responses to this post) it would suck to have my thread derailed so early.

I'm not derailing the thread, I'm pointing out this isn't entirely Obama.

ikorack wrote:

Also your statements have nothing to do with my question, you didn't even make a comparison of political environments which is required to answer my question.

Lets see the Democrats managed to:
1. Pass the most corrupt piece of legislation in US history that the people still want repealed.

2. Spark angry town hall meetings.

3. Cause the biggest Grassroots movement seen in Decades (i.e. the tea party).

4. Get throttled in a midterm election that made 1994 look like a good year for Democrats, and it was the biggest shift in the balance of power in over 50 years.

So, what I said is completely relevant, the Democrats overreached bigtime and paid the price in November 2010, and will probably pay for it again in November 2012.

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03 Apr 2011, 11:08 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

This is only on economic issues. America is socially more liberal now than it was 60 years ago. See for instance much greater acceptance of gays, progress in race relations, the weakening of traditional gender roles, etc.

And I think that Uygur would argue that the American people have not moved to the right, but only the political elite. Our economic policies for the past two years, under an allegedly left-wing President, have consistently been well to the right of what the American electorate actually wants.

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03 Apr 2011, 11:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

ikorack wrote:

Do not try and act like last years election turned out the way they did for any reason other than Obama's incompetence, it makes you look foolish.

I'm not just talking about Obama, I'm talking about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi...

you are talking about current over extensions in politics, but you are doing this solely as a judgment of the current atmosphere with no comparison towards the past.

Quote:

ikorack wrote:

Could the rest of you ignore this post(And any of his responses to this post) it would suck to have my thread derailed so early.

I'm not derailing the thread, I'm pointing out this isn't entirely Obama.

Which has nothing to do with this thread, no one said it was only Obama and you still have made no comparisons.

Quote:

ikorack wrote:

Also your statements have nothing to do with my question, you didn't even make a comparison of political environments which is required to answer my question.

Judgments about the current relationship between voters and parties is not related to this thread unless you entwine it with other elements showing a shift in political ideology, Citing current disapproval does not do this although I understand why you might think it does, your assuming that such things would ever be accepted in past climates and you do this without mentioning what would make you think that.

Quote:

So, what I said is completely relevant, the Democrats overreached bigtime and paid the price in November 2010, and will probably pay for it again in November 2012.

Is not a comparison does not belong in this thread.

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03 Apr 2011, 11:23 pm

Orwell wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

From what I understand, the OP is about where the "elite" or "establishment" has moved. I also tend to generally not think of non-socioeconomic issues as "left vs. right", although that may just be a quirk of having used to political compass so often.

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03 Apr 2011, 11:31 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

I had no mention of elite, it is about the establishment as the political element in power and who opposes it now in comparison to the past. Do not project such dodgy elements(belief in elites) on to me.

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