Cut all the benefits/welfare, fix the economy

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Asp-Z
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20 Nov 2010, 6:09 am

This is especially relevant in the UK, but it may bare some relevance in the US and other countries too.

In the UK, the Labour government put a lot of work into giving everyone free money for doing nothing. They made benefits for everything and freeloaders nationwide signed up.

Now the Tories are the main power in Number 10 (Nick Clegg is David Cameron's tea boy, let's face it, the Lib Dems have no real power), this is slowly being fixed. But I have a more radical proposition.

Let me mention Hong Kong for a minute. They have a booming economy. They have very low and very few taxes. And they have no government handouts.

I remember reading an article ages ago where someone from there said that a reason Hong Kong and China have so much entrepreneurship and such a massive economy is not just because of the taxes in HK, but because, quite simply, if you can't get a job, you either make your own money or you die of thirst and starvation. There's no government safety net.

The reason is pretty obvious. If you don't have anything, you don't have anything to lose, right? So you'll go out and make your own money because there is no other option unless you want to die.

So, instead of unemployment causing more of a strain on government resources and a rise in taxes, it causes more economic growth, which in turn causes a rise in tax revenue for the government anyway - Hong Kong makes more from tax revenue than the UK despite how small and few their taxes are.

Bringing it back to the UK, then. The government spends more in benefits than it gets in income tax. If they cut it all off, they'd be able to drop taxes, pay off the deficit faster, encourage enterprise, and the economy will sort itself out. As a result, the government's tax revenues will go up too.

It really is a win-win here. Less of a punishment for success for entrepreneurs and employees and more of a reward for the government.

The only losers, really, would be the people who feel it's their right to get handouts from the government to live off of - there are way too many of those people, but they need to get off their asses and actually do some work anyway, and nothing will jolt them into doing that more than having their safety net taken away.



Wombat
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20 Nov 2010, 6:29 am

You couldn't be more wrong.

I am not a fan of welfare but things are not the way they used to be.

In America (England) of 100 years ago you could buy a sewing machine and set up as a tailor or dressmaker.
Now how can you compete with cheap Chinese imports?

In my own lifetime banks and government departments were filled with clerks cranking away at adding machines. Now they have a big computer.

In my grandfather's time it took hundreds of men with picks and shovels to work on a building project, and many more men with horses and carts to haul the material to the site.

Even in Detroit they can make twice the number of cars with half the workers they used to.

You might say "get a job" but what job?



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:30 am

Wombat wrote:
You couldn't be more wrong.

I am not a fan of welfare but things are not the way they used to be.

In America (England) of 100 years ago you could buy a sewing machine and set up as a tailor or dressmaker.
Now how can you compete with cheap Chinese imports?



Easy. Become a coolie and work for a bowl of rice a day.

ruveyn



Asp-Z
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20 Nov 2010, 6:33 am

Wombat wrote:
You couldn't be more wrong.

I am not a fan of welfare but things are not the way they used to be.

In America (England) of 100 years ago you could buy a sewing machine and set up as a tailor or dressmaker.
Now how can you compete with cheap Chinese imports?

In my own lifetime banks and government departments were filled with clerks cranking away at adding machines. Now they have a big computer.

In my grandfather's time it took hundreds of men with picks and shovels to work on a building project, and many more men with horses and carts to haul the material to the site.

Even in Detroit they can make twice the number of cars with half the workers they used to.

You might say "get a job" but what job?


Oh, I agree with you that we can't compete with manufacturing, but there's never a shortage of demand for business in general - there's always new products to be made, new technology to sell, etc, and there's certainly no shortage of people who could be doing these things.

Remember, though most products these days are manufactured in China, the companies that sell them, design them, and market them are usually American or European.



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:38 am

Asp-Z wrote:
This is especially relevant in the UK, but it may bare some relevance in the US and other countries too.

In the UK, the Labour government put a lot of work into giving everyone free money for doing nothing. They made benefits for everything and freeloaders nationwide signed up.

Now the Tories are the main power in Number 10 (Nick Clegg is David Cameron's tea boy, let's face it, the Lib Dems have no real power), this is slowly being fixed. But I have a more radical proposition.

Let me mention Hong Kong for a minute. They have a booming economy. They have very low and very few taxes. And they have no government handouts.

I remember reading an article ages ago where someone from there said that a reason Hong Kong and China have so much entrepreneurship and such a massive economy is not just because of the taxes in HK, but because, quite simply, if you can't get a job, you either make your own money or you die of thirst and starvation. There's no government safety net.

The reason is pretty obvious. If you don't have anything, you don't have anything to lose, right? So you'll go out and make your own money because there is no other option unless you want to die.

So, instead of unemployment causing more of a strain on government resources and a rise in taxes, it causes more economic growth, which in turn causes a rise in tax revenue for the government anyway - Hong Kong makes more from tax revenue than the UK despite how small and few their taxes are.

Bringing it back to the UK, then. The government spends more in benefits than it gets in income tax. If they cut it all off, they'd be able to drop taxes, pay off the deficit faster, encourage enterprise, and the economy will sort itself out. As a result, the government's tax revenues will go up too.

It really is a win-win here. Less of a punishment for success for entrepreneurs and employees and more of a reward for the government.

The only losers, really, would be the people who feel it's their right to get handouts from the government to live off of - there are way too many of those people, but they need to get off their asses and actually do some work anyway, and nothing will jolt them into doing that more than having their safety net taken away.


And to think that England used to be the number one capitalist country of the world. Capitalism was invented in England and Scotland.

ruveyn



Asp-Z
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20 Nov 2010, 6:40 am

ruveyn wrote:
And to think that England used to be the number one capitalist country of the world. Capitalism was invented in England and Scotland.

ruveyn


Exactly. It's pathetic. Most jobs these days are provided by the public sector. We're becoming socialist.



Laz
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20 Nov 2010, 6:41 am

So you won't be claiming your DLA anymore?



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:42 am

Asp-Z wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
And to think that England used to be the number one capitalist country of the world. Capitalism was invented in England and Scotland.

ruveyn


Exactly. It's pathetic. Most jobs these days are provided by the public sector. We're becoming socialist.


Becoming? You are already there. Here in the United States we have become socialist too, but we won't admit it in public. We won't say the S-word. Even the Socialists are ashamed. They call themselves Progressives.

ruveyn



Craig28
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20 Nov 2010, 6:43 am

Image



Asp-Z
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20 Nov 2010, 6:43 am

Laz wrote:
So you won't be claiming your DLA anymore?


I do not claim DLA.

Craig28 wrote:
Image


Troll - because sensible arguments are too good for you.



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:45 am

Asp-Z wrote:
Laz wrote:
So you won't be claiming your DLA anymore?


I do not claim DLA. My mum has claimed it on my behalf in the past, but now that I'm 16, I'll have to renew it myself, and I won't do so.

Craig28 wrote:
Image


Troll - because sensible arguments are too good for you.


I assume DLA is some kind of dole? Is that right?

Forgive me for being ignorant of your customs.

ruveyn



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:45 am

Asp-Z wrote:
Laz wrote:
So you won't be claiming your DLA anymore?


I do not claim DLA. My mum has claimed it on my behalf in the past, but now that I'm 16, I'll have to renew it myself, and I won't do so.

Craig28 wrote:
Image


Troll - because sensible arguments are too good for you.


I assume DLA is some kind of dole? Is that right?

Forgive me for being ignorant of your customs.

ruveyn



Nambo
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20 Nov 2010, 6:46 am

Best way to fix the economy is to take control of the issue of money from the private bankers.
Imagine if we didnt have to buy our own money and pay interest on it, no national debt.
Instead of your mortgage interest payments going to some banker, it wnet into the tax pot.

Hitler did this and turned broken Germany into the strongest economy in the world within 4 years, for this reason the bankers had to demonise Germany to get the rest of the west to go to war and bring it back in line.

JF Kennedy ened the Federal Reserve and had America start issuing his own money, the bankers coudnt allow this so they had him assasinated and thier next puppet president brought back the Fed, now look at America today, in a debt it can never ever even maintain, its finished.

Islam too, like Germany was, has been demonised by thes bankers so that we are willing to go to war against it, you see they dont belive in usery and maintain thier own monetary system.

All these cutbacks amount to nothing anyway, just in October gone, we in UK had to borrow another £10 billion from the bankers who do nothing for it, except type the figure on a computer screen, easy work if you can get it.



Craig28
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20 Nov 2010, 6:46 am

Think what you will Asp-Z. Your the one calling for a revolution. You are playing a dangerous game.



ruveyn
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20 Nov 2010, 6:49 am

Nambo wrote:
Best way to fix the economy is to take control of the issue of money from the private bankers.
Imagine if we didnt have to buy our own money and pay interest on it, no national debt.
Instead of your mortgage interest payments going to some banker, it wnet into the tax pot.

Hitler did this and turned broken Germany into the strongest economy in the world within 4 years, for this reason the bankers had to demonise Germany to get the rest of the west to go to war and bring it back in line.



Hitler turned Germany into the foremost Looter of the world. And the world did not take kindly. Look what happened to the thousand year Reich. It lasted twelve years and when the allies got through there was not one brick left standing on another. We wrecked Germany and rubbed their god damned Nazi faces into the dirt.

The strength of Germany was an illusion created by stealing and getting away with it for a short while.

ruveyn



Asp-Z
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20 Nov 2010, 6:52 am

ruveyn wrote:
I assume DLA is some kind of dole? Is that right?

Forgive me for being ignorant of your customs.

ruveyn


DLA is a benefit the government gives to people with disabilities. It stands for Disability Living Allowance.