Big argiculture corps wants to make exposing cruelty illegal

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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 5:01 pm

"Big Ag Wants To Make It a Crime to Expose Animal Abuse at Factory Farms

Lawmakers in Florida and Iowa have introduced bills to establish criminal penalties for going undercover at agricultural facilities and simply taking pictures."


Pretty sickening to me. If there ever is the abuse of life going on then no way should it become a crime to expose it.

See article for details (pages 1 and 2 of 2):
http://www.alternet.org/story/150312/bi ... L&rd=1&t=6
http://www.alternet.org/story/150312/bi ... rms?page=2


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27 Mar 2011, 5:31 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
"Big Ag Wants To Make It a Crime to Expose Animal Abuse at Factory Farms

Lawmakers in Florida and Iowa have introduced bills to establish criminal penalties for going undercover at agricultural facilities and simply taking pictures."


Pretty sickening to me. If there ever is the abuse of life going on then no way should it become a crime to expose it.

See article for details (pages 1 and 2 of 2):
http://www.alternet.org/story/150312/bi ... L&rd=1&t=6
http://www.alternet.org/story/150312/bi ... rms?page=2


There is a question of trespass on private property here. No one has a right to go into a private location and take pictures or do anything else for that matter. Entry into a private domain is by invitation only. And taking pictures is a No No because it is an invasion of privacy.

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27 Mar 2011, 5:37 pm

Many major abuses of animals have been discovered by undercover people who use hidden cameras. If we were to just inform the suspected industries that 'inspection is on this day at this time' then the abuses will never be discovered. You absolutely cannot take an industry known for abuses' word for it. Then again the US media is working very hard to make the idea of whistle-blowing as unpatriotic as possible


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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 5:40 pm

Morality plays a massive part though. Is it right for animals to be at greater risk of abuse?

BTW, most of the time is was not exposed under trespassing but done by people who got jobs at the facilities then filmed once there, but yes I guess that that comes under the private property rules.

Would you be happy if there were a prison with no CCTV where people could be abused? If the answer is no, then why should similar precautions be banned from protecting the lives of animals?


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27 Mar 2011, 5:41 pm

This wouldn't just prevent animal cruelty from being discovered but would make it more difficult to ascertain whether sanitation procedures are being followed in a prompt and legal fashion


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ruveyn
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27 Mar 2011, 5:43 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Many major abuses of animals have been discovered by undercover people who use hidden cameras. If we were to just inform the suspected industries that 'inspection is on this day at this time' then the abuses will never be discovered. You absolutely cannot take an industry known for abuses' word for it. Then again the US media is working very hard to make the idea of whistle-blowing as unpatriotic as possible


Solution: Have surprise legal inspections. If the industrial site does not admit inspectors when they show up and identify themselves large fines are charged.

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27 Mar 2011, 5:44 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Many major abuses of animals have been discovered by undercover people who use hidden cameras. If we were to just inform the suspected industries that 'inspection is on this day at this time' then the abuses will never be discovered. You absolutely cannot take an industry known for abuses' word for it. Then again the US media is working very hard to make the idea of whistle-blowing as unpatriotic as possible


Solution: Have surprise legal inspections. If the industrial site does not admit inspectors when they show up and identify themselves large fines are charged.

ruveyn


That is a good idea, but why should employees not be allowed to bring attention to their company's excesses?


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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 5:53 pm

I agree with the both of you. Surprise visits will definitely help.

I still personally find it a good idea for undercover people who are working there to try and film things, because if direct violence is happening it wont make a difference if the inspector shows up or not, as the people would obviously not act the same in front of them.


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27 Mar 2011, 6:21 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
"Big Ag Wants To Make It a Crime to Expose Animal Abuse at Factory Farms

Lawmakers in Florida and Iowa have introduced bills to establish criminal penalties for going undercover at agricultural facilities and simply taking pictures."


Pretty sickening to me. If there ever is the abuse of life going on then no way should it become a crime to expose it.

Privacy and confidentiality laws already exist, and the added crime here would be that of fraud and/or deception or even potential blackmail if someone hires on for any reason other than to work for the employer as desired, expected and as agreed beforehand.

PatrickNeville wrote:
Would you be happy if there were a prison with no CCTV where people could be abused [without the perpetrator/s being filmed]? If the answer is no ...

... then just require the same kind of systems be installed in other places such as being discussed here.


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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 6:37 pm

When it comes to abusing animals / humans I think that it is justified to expose it.

CCTV Cameras everywhere would be a massive improvement. I'd rather have that reassurance and the reassurance of investigations by employees.


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27 Mar 2011, 6:38 pm

Surprise visits would help with sanitation and living conditions, but it would not help with the actual abuse of animals by workers unless the inspectors were invisible/hidden/in disguise.



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27 Mar 2011, 8:16 pm

Vigilans wrote:

That is a good idea, but why should employees not be allowed to bring attention to their company's excesses?


Suppose a condition of employment is that no employee shall divulge what occurs on the premises?

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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 8:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vigilans wrote:

That is a good idea, but why should employees not be allowed to bring attention to their company's excesses?


Suppose a condition of employment is that no employee shall divulge what occurs on the premises?

ruveyn


The issue I see is this. If it were a manufacturing facility for say TVs and child labour was being used, or there was harassment going on, I would expect it to be justified for a person to provide evidence for it. The same should also apply for a care home or mental health hospital in case any of the staff become negligent. The same ought to apply for animals.


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27 Mar 2011, 8:29 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
The issue I see is this. If it were a manufacturing facility for say TVs and child labour was being used, or there was harassment going on, I would expect it to be justified for a person to provide evidence for it. The same should also apply for a care home or mental health hospital in case any of the staff become negligent. The same ought to apply for animals.

There is no law saying those things cannot be reported, and neither is this law is about that. This law is only saying deception (undercover activity) cannot be used to obtain the evidence.


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27 Mar 2011, 8:29 pm

Why should atheists care as to whether or not something is humane? I just don't get the logic behind concern over how your next meal was killed?


For the record, I am concerned with how animals are treated, however for me it is partially out of religious reasons that we are all God's creations.



PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 8:46 pm

leejosepho wrote:
PatrickNeville wrote:
The issue I see is this. If it were a manufacturing facility for say TVs and child labour was being used, or there was harassment going on, I would expect it to be justified for a person to provide evidence for it. The same should also apply for a care home or mental health hospital in case any of the staff become negligent. The same ought to apply for animals.

There is no law saying those things cannot be reported, and neither is this law is about that. This law is only saying deception (undercover activity) cannot be used to obtain the evidence.


Valid point you know.


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