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Chummy
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25 Jun 2011, 6:41 am

Everyone uses stereotypes. Our brain automatically tags people and matches them an attribute, mostly a negative one. For example, it's "not right" for a woman to work as a handyman, one prefers to date with a white girl, or all south americans use/make drugs.

There is such thing called the Freedom of thought, so everyone has the right to hold an opinion regarding a certain group of people. But when it comes to actions, like killing black people because they are black or swearing gays because they are gays I think it is morally wrong. Opinions kept in one's brain are harmless. But actions against a certain group can result in serious damage to that group. Think about that when you protest against someone, when you write an article to the newspaper about someone, when you make a rumour against someone, when you write on WP about a certain group or a certain individual.

Are you an easy pray to stereotypes? do you act according to them?

Quote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me


Just some food for thought.



Sand
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25 Jun 2011, 6:53 am

Chummy wrote:
Everyone uses stereotypes. Our brain automatically tags people and matches them an attribute, mostly a negative one. For example, it's "not right" for a woman to work as a handyman, one prefers to date with a white girl, or all south americans use/make drugs.

There is such thing called the Freedom of thought, so everyone has the right to hold an opinion regarding a certain group of people. But when it comes to actions, like killing black people because they are black or swearing gays because they are gays I think it is morally wrong. Opinions kept in one's brain are harmless. But actions against a certain group can result in serious damage to that group. Think about that when you protest against someone, when you write an article to the newspaper about someone, when you make a rumour against someone, when you write on WP about a certain group or a certain individual.

Are you an easy pray to stereotypes? do you act according to them?

Quote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me


Just some food for thought.


Attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller . That was a good deal of time before they started coming for the Palestinians.



leejosepho
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25 Jun 2011, 8:26 am

Chummy wrote:
Everyone uses stereotypes. Our brain automatically tags people and matches them an attribute, mostly a negative one ...

Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.

Chummy wrote:
... everyone has the right to hold an opinion regarding a certain group of people.

Says who?

Chummy wrote:
Opinions kept in one's brain are harmless.

No, they can hold oneself hostage.

Chummy wrote:
Quote:
First they came for the communists ...
Then they came for the socialists ...
Then they came for the trade unionists ...
Then they came for the Jews ...
Then they came for me ...

They?


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Chummy
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25 Jun 2011, 8:39 am

leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.


Well, for every person the brain automatically tags a man/woman based on his/her attributes like weight, nationallity, etc. It's already proven. You probably manage to ignore that when you interact with that same individual. Not everybody can, though.

Quote:
Says who?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_thought

You can't possibly tell someone not to think about something or hold an opinion, even the most extreme, about something or someone. It's pretty much impossible to enforce. There are limitations, however, if someone acts illegaly based on his opinion.

Quote:
They?


Please read here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6



ruveyn
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25 Jun 2011, 8:48 am

leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.



How is it they speak with each other in a common language? That indicates a collective social or cultural process is at work along with any individual differences. People are almost never atomically isolated. They live in families and communities and therefore acquire collectively developed habits. And the collective habits are very persistent. They sometimes last for centuries.

ruveyn



Sand
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25 Jun 2011, 9:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.



How is it they speak with each other in a common language? That indicates a collective social or cultural process is at work along with any individual differences. People are almost never atomically isolated. They live in families and communities and therefore acquire collectively developed habits. And the collective habits are very persistent. They sometimes last for centuries.

ruveyn


And it is a gross mistake to smear every general class of people equally neglecting the we are all individuals. I grew up in New York City, not far from where ruveyn lives but we are as different as any people can get.



leejosepho
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25 Jun 2011, 10:34 am

Sand wrote:
... I grew up in New York City, not far from where ruveyn lives but we are as different as any people can get.

Yes, we must at least have each been nursed by different mothers, eh?!


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Philologos
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25 Jun 2011, 12:16 pm

leejosepho -

I am reminded of the Desert Father who heard of a man who was said to have attained the highest level of spirituality.

He went to visit the paragon, asked him "If you came across a nakede woman by the roadside had had to carry her in your arms to get help, would you be able to ignore her nakedness?"

"No," was the reply, "but I would focus my thoughts and attention so as not to let my body be stirred."

"Ah" said the old man, then you have NOT attained freedom from temptation, you simply have a degree of mastery over your body."

I'm shortening this.

Anyhow - I will not call you a liar to your face nor assume you are mistaken - but for me, and most of us, and if you are an exception congratulations, I respond individually to the individuals I meet, but I am also aware [though like the man in the story I may not act on it] of the groups to which they belong.

Thus Number 1 Son had as a friend a young person who was in manner of speech and expression a near clone of a formewr student of mine. I could not interact with her without constant awareness of my interactions with the other.



Chummy
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25 Jun 2011, 1:47 pm

Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.



How is it they speak with each other in a common language? That indicates a collective social or cultural process is at work along with any individual differences. People are almost never atomically isolated. They live in families and communities and therefore acquire collectively developed habits. And the collective habits are very persistent. They sometimes last for centuries.

ruveyn


And it is a gross mistake to smear every general class of people equally neglecting the we are all individuals. I grew up in New York City, not far from where ruveyn lives but we are as different as any people can get.


In what ways are you different, if I may ask?



Master_Pedant
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25 Jun 2011, 2:00 pm

Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.



How is it they speak with each other in a common language? That indicates a collective social or cultural process is at work along with any individual differences. People are almost never atomically isolated. They live in families and communities and therefore acquire collectively developed habits. And the collective habits are very persistent. They sometimes last for centuries.

ruveyn


And it is a gross mistake to smear every general class of people equally neglecting the we are all individuals. I grew up in New York City, not far from where ruveyn lives but we are as different as any people can get.


Are your really sure about that? While you have different political/social/cultural views and are definitely not the Social Darwinist ruveyn is, I'm willing to suspect that if we got down to individual mannerism and even the technicality of your and ruveyn's respective thought processes, most third party observers would see a lot of similarities between you two.


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MissConstrue
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25 Jun 2011, 2:11 pm

I don't do that stuff probably because I was raised with watching these stereotypical roles constantly broken. My mom was the one who not only worked but fixed cars. My dad watched musicals and buffed his fingers before picking a guitar. My cousin came out of the closet to his family and lived with us for a while and helped my mom fix cars. We were raised not to judge a person by the color of their skin. The only few friends I had as a kid were colored and hispanic. I never have been able to identify with the stereotypical roles women play in the media. But to some degree when I see a guy with a bunch of tattoos cussing his brains out with hardly any clothes on I begin to stereotype. This is something I'm still working on.


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leejosepho
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25 Jun 2011, 3:22 pm

Philologos wrote:
leejosepho -

... I will not call you a liar to your face ...

... and you would be just as wrong to do so anywhere else. As a man who is nothing stereotypical, I am not capable of stereotyping. I occasionally categorize after the fact, but I do not assume beforehand.


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Sand
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25 Jun 2011, 5:46 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Not for me. I see individual people, not groups.



How is it they speak with each other in a common language? That indicates a collective social or cultural process is at work along with any individual differences. People are almost never atomically isolated. They live in families and communities and therefore acquire collectively developed habits. And the collective habits are very persistent. They sometimes last for centuries.

ruveyn


And it is a gross mistake to smear every general class of people equally neglecting the we are all individuals. I grew up in New York City, not far from where ruveyn lives but we are as different as any people can get.


Are your really sure about that? While you have different political/social/cultural views and are definitely not the Social Darwinist ruveyn is, I'm willing to suspect that if we got down to individual mannerism and even the technicality of your and ruveyn's respective thought processes, most third party observers would see a lot of similarities between you two.



There are a lot of similarities between you and me. And major differences. That's true of me and the current leader of the Chinese government as well. What are you trying to prove?



leejosepho
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25 Jun 2011, 8:47 pm

Observable similarities and stereotyping have virtually nothing on common ... and of all places for stereotyping to be completely silly, here we are right here on WP!

But of course, yes, all posters in PPR do post ...


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PainInTheASpergerS
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27 Jun 2011, 10:31 am

I stereotype everybody, even my own kind.

It's my way of quickly weeding through people with whom I have not had the opportunity to get to know on an individual basis so as to develop a real opinion on them. If I do get a chance to learn about someone, I will my opinion evolve as a result of that interaction. So, despite the fact that I stereotype, my stereotypes are not so strong as to prevent my getting to know people as individuals.

I think that saying you do not have stereotypes of any kind, whatsoever is lying to yourself.



cave_canem
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27 Jun 2011, 8:00 pm

PainInTheASpergerS wrote:
I think that saying you do not have stereotypes of any kind, whatsoever is lying to yourself.


Agreed - if the person truly believes they don't stereotype.

Otherwise, they are simply trying to prove their moral superiority.