Is there anyone who's both pro-life and pro-LGBT rights?

Page 1 of 5 [ 76 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

slasher666
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 53
Location: Pickering, ON

15 Jul 2011, 1:09 am

I am both against abortion and for the universal legalization of LGBT rights such as same-sex marriage, and aside from my brother, I've never heard of anyone else who is, and this bothers me because I feel like I'm all alone. I think of myself as a politically-liberal person, partly because liberal politicians tend to be open to gay rights, but unfortunately, they also tend to be pro-abortion. With conservative politicians, it tends to be the other way around. For example, I hate everything about George Bush Jr. and Sarah Palin except that they're pro-life, and I like almost everything about Barack Obama except that he's pro-abortion. I'm officially Catholic and Jewish, although I no longer practise because I don't believe in organized religion, even though I believe in the same God and most of the moral values of those religions, which are common amongst most of the world's religions. My dad, who's a very devout practising Catholic, believes that it's not a sin to be gay, since it's who you are naturally, but it's a sin to commit any homosexual acts. This is actually what the Bible teaches you to believe, but even though it says that all humans are created equal and everyone should love everyone else, religious fanatics tend to misinterpret this and thus bully gay people because they think they're automatically sinning just by existing. My dad is also very pro-life and attends Lifechain with me every year. I wish all those devout Christians would realize what the teachings actually are, but I don't even believe that it's necessarily a sin to commit homosexual acts any more than I believe that it's necessarily a sin to commit heterosexual acts. I don't think there's any real harm in practising homosexuality because it doesn't automatically hurt anyone. I also don't believe that getting a sex change or committing transvestism is a sin, either. I do acknowledge, however, that being homosexual is a biological disadvantage because human beings can't be created through gay sex like they can through straight sex. I figure since LGBTs are a persecuted minority who's non-conformity doesn't actually cause any harm, they should be proud of who they are and celebrate it. As an aspie, I'm very inspired by the gay pride movement (though I think gay pride parades often make LGBTs look like complete fools and put other people off that way) and wants there to be an autistic pride movement in which we aspies and other auties unite and (in a way that doesn't annoy or offend people) show our pride to the rest of the world, through events such as pride parades. I wish that, like with LGBTs, we had our own underground culture that would be very complex and contain many different elements, such as art, music, movies, lingo, (maybe our own fashion, even though I don't care about fashion), and other entertainment. Is there anyone here who agrees with both my views on abortion and my views on homosexuality/LGBT?

Daniel Tammet is a gay aspie and Ladyhawke is a transvestite aspie.



MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

15 Jul 2011, 1:31 am

Zogby found that 40% of Democrats who voted for John Kerry in 2004 were pro-life.

I saw a "Pro-life? Go Vegan" bumper sticker the other day in downtown Portland, so I also suspect that in principle, animal rights activists are also pro-life, though in their anger at humans valuing human life more over animals, they don't look too fondly on the human animal.

But anyways, those two positions are not at odds with one another - one is rooted in equality and redefining acceptable definitions of the various ways we can cohabitate with another person, and the other is valuing life and that its definition extends conception.

The homosexual acts are not sinful in that they harm you in any way. This was not established to benefit religious institutions or to benefit God. The conditioning of the Jewish people by God to be ethical put such strict rules and definitions on them so that they would produce - through raising and inculcating their values - a largely heterosexual society. There should be exceptions for the homosexual - his/her nature was a product of nature(God) and should not be punished for that, but the human being's sexuality is not fixed, and that is why the definitions are rigid: so that we create a largely heterosexual society. That is Gods Ideal. We can make room for the exceptions such as the 10-20% of the population who are rigidly homosexual.

I know what you long for but it is very difficult with aspies. Most don't give a sh^t about clothes and we're all too unique for example my infatuation with skyscrappers and architechtual design or urban studies is mostly unique to me, for someone else it could be marine biology or heavy metal. It might be possible to create a unified culture but I don't want it to be limited to the most popular common denominator: Our aspiness and the civil rights/cultural awareness involved... I would like to go beyond that, but don't know how.
A massive polling efforts in all subjects would help (let me know if you need help, it sounds like an interesting idea.)


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


marshall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

15 Jul 2011, 2:43 am

I'm opposed to late term abortion in most cases, but otherwise socially liberal. I'm in support of women's rights / reproductive rights, but I'm turned off by arguments that an unborn fetus is property or less than a human life right up until birth.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Arizona

15 Jul 2011, 3:06 am

I consider myself pro-life and believe everybody should have the same rights. The government should not be recognizing differences in race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. between it's citizens.



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

15 Jul 2011, 9:32 am

Is anyone sane actually opposed to rights?

The issue is rather WHAT rights people are believed to have, WHAT beings are accepted to bde people, and WHAT privileges one would see extended by society to which groups.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,398

15 Jul 2011, 10:25 am

"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


_________________
.


AceOfSpades
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,754
Location: Sean Penn, Cambodia

15 Jul 2011, 10:35 am

marshall wrote:
I'm opposed to late term abortion in most cases, but otherwise socially liberal. I'm in support of women's rights / reproductive rights, but I'm turned off by arguments that an unborn fetus is property or less than a human life right up until birth.
Same here.

@ Vex: Loaded BS. That makes as much sense as saying everyone who is against the War on Terror must love Al Qaeda and hate America.



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

15 Jul 2011, 10:49 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


To whom addressed? I cannot detect.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

15 Jul 2011, 11:28 am

I see nothing wrong with homosexuality and I do not oppose the idea of gay marrige or civil unions if using the word marrige is seriously that offensive to straight people. And I don't even like the term pro-life I mean what am I anti-life if I don't oppose abortion in all cases? I think for valid reasons abortion is fine during early pregnancy, obviously there has to be regulations but I think it should be legal.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

15 Jul 2011, 11:30 am

Jacoby wrote:
I consider myself pro-life and believe everybody should have the same rights. The government should not be recognizing differences in race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. between it's citizens.


The differences still exist even with the same rights.....I mean straight people and gay people are not and will never be the same thing for instance. But yes rights are good.



Henbane
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,071
Location: UK

15 Jul 2011, 11:30 am

I'm generally against abortion, and pro equality for lgbtq people.

I couldn't read all of your post, so I just answered the initial question. Nothing to do with religious belief or lack of though.



Jacoby
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Arizona

15 Jul 2011, 11:48 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


They have the right to not get pregnant. Once a new life begins, it's rights should be protected.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

15 Jul 2011, 11:56 am

Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


They have the right to not get pregnant. Once a new life begins, it's rights should be protected.


I hope you are not one of those people who thinks birth control should be illegal because 'life starts at the moment of conception'.



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

15 Jul 2011, 12:12 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


They have the right to not get pregnant. Once a new life begins, it's rights should be protected.


I hope you are not one of those people who thinks birth control should be illegal because 'life starts at the moment of conception'.


That would be ridiculous. Prevention of conception does not kill thast which is conceived.

Opposition to birth control may ride along with opposition to abortion, but they are not the same thing.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

15 Jul 2011, 12:17 pm

Philologos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
"Everyone should have the same rights. Except pregnant women, of course".

I guess the best word to describe your allegiance is misogynist.


They have the right to not get pregnant. Once a new life begins, it's rights should be protected.


I hope you are not one of those people who thinks birth control should be illegal because 'life starts at the moment of conception'.


That would be ridiculous. Prevention of conception does not kill thast which is conceived.

Opposition to birth control may ride along with opposition to abortion, but they are not the same thing.


Well I realise that but those people do exist, and that was close to the sort of wording they use. there where some of these people trying to get banning abortion and taking it as far as banning birth control on the ballot. It would have never passed but still.



Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

15 Jul 2011, 12:50 pm

Certainly they exist. The standard Catholic view was and probably still is - I am not totally up on it - opposed both to elimination of the conceptus [simplest availabler term to cover all I need to cover] and to prevention of conception except by well-timed abstinence. The two are differently rooted in theology, but being so closely associated and teaching of the same church are generally treated as if one.

Anybody opposed to birth control is likely to be opposed to abortion, but those opposed to abortion may be fine with preventive birth control.

Note that even standard Catholic teaching during my lifetime has not blacklisted all avoidance of conception.