Is denying global warming up there with Flat Earthism?

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donnie_darko
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27 Dec 2011, 1:44 pm

Do you think skepticism of global warming at this point is completely irrational? Even though pretty much every scientist not on a payroll believes in global warming, I still find it difficult to believe in. More just because something that scary, I mean mainstream science is pretty much admitting the sky is falling, is hard to accept.

The evidence is pretty extraordinary though. Even though it seems colder today than it was 10 years ago, I guess 50 years ago the world was way colder and snowier than it is now.



androbot2084
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27 Dec 2011, 1:52 pm

Most people worship money as their god and don't believe in global warming because they would rather sacrifice the entire human race than to sacrifice their god which is money.



snapcap
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27 Dec 2011, 1:54 pm

Why isn't it just climate change?



Jacoby
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27 Dec 2011, 2:49 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Do you think skepticism of global warming at this point is completely irrational? Even though pretty much every scientist not on a payroll believes in global warming, I still find it difficult to believe in. More just because something that scary, I mean mainstream science is pretty much admitting the sky is falling, is hard to accept.

The evidence is pretty extraordinary though. Even though it seems colder today than it was 10 years ago, I guess 50 years ago the world was way colder and snowier than it is now.


Mainstream science is admitting the sky is falling? Maybe if you consider Al Gore a mainstream scientist but I don't think it's quite that serious if it is happening.



cw10
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Asp-Z
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27 Dec 2011, 3:01 pm

Global warming exists, that's a fact. That global warming is caused by the actions of human beings is a baseless assumption, however, and I find it ridiculous that it's so widely believed. Correlation isn't causation.



Jojoba
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27 Dec 2011, 3:17 pm

The biggest problem with the global warming theory isn't so much the science, even though some dispute that and rightfully so, the main problem is the ideas prescribed to solve the problem. But to say that the science of global warming is settled is to not understand science its self. Even some of the basic scientific principles we believe true sometimes turn out not to be - as with the case recently of Einstein's theory of nothing being faster than light.

An article I recall about Einstein's theory being in doubt, in relationship to global warming believers.

"Settled?"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... 9/settled/

Snippet:

Quote:
...Of course, more experiments will follow. That’s the thing about science. Theories are theories; any scientific theory or hypothesis can always be challenged by new facts.
What’s interesting, of course, is how much more mature physicists seem to be than climatologists. Dissent from a scientific paradigm much more firmly established than anything in climate science isn’t greeted with howls of rage, fury and charges of heresy. Many physicists are skeptical, as well they should be, of evidence that seems contrary to decades of experiment and analysis, but the overwhelming mood seems to be one of curiosity rather than rage. Could these new results possibly be real? What would this mean if it is true? How can we check these results to see how fast these neutrinos are really moving?
This is how real science operates. While I believe that the climate scientists are broadly correct subject to all the usual qualifications (temperatures are rising, the rise is associated with an accelerated production of greenhouse gasses by human activity, and further increases in greenhouse gas levels look likely to promote continued temperature increases and associated climate change), I continue to think that the heresy-hunting, quack remedy promoting climate change movement is part of the problem rather than part of the solution. And challenges to the conclusions of climate science, and questions about computer models and the predictions they generate need to be answered by careful and reasoned debate, not by name calling and ad hominem arguments.
If physicists can control themselves while the most fundamental elements of their worldview are challenged by a handful of researchers with some interesting but quite tricky and potentially flawed results, then the climate world should be able to handle controversy with a little less venom as well. My guess is that the best climate scientists are more interested by the questions critics are asking rather than infuriated by their temerity in doing so. The orthodoxy enforcers and the heresy police tend not to be the finest scientific minds; skepticism and curiosity make for good science, not herd thinking and righteous rage....



Robdemanc
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27 Dec 2011, 3:18 pm

Its because people know its not a simple question of whether we are causing it or not. It involves too many variables and everyone knows the weather is unpredictable anyway and that we have been through warm/cold periods long before humans turned up.

What bothers me is the people who dismiss it completely. We should all be aware that the climate and ecosystems are sensitive things, just a small tip in one direction could have major effects.

Also some people just don't care about the rest of life on this planet.



Asp-Z
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27 Dec 2011, 3:19 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Also some people just don't care about the rest of life on this planet.


You called? :P



Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 3:24 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Its because people know its not a simple question of whether we are causing it or not. It involves too many variables and everyone knows the weather is unpredictable anyway and that we have been through warm/cold periods long before humans turned up.


What really bothers me is that some vile scrotes throw around disgusting slurs like "global warming denier", an obvious distasteful reference to the Shoah. Sick people.



Vigilans
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27 Dec 2011, 3:26 pm

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Its because people know its not a simple question of whether we are causing it or not. It involves too many variables and everyone knows the weather is unpredictable anyway and that we have been through warm/cold periods long before humans turned up.


What really bothers me is that some vile scrotes throw around disgusting slurs like "global warming denier", an obvious distasteful reference to the Shoah. Sick people.


Not really. The association was made by those who are in fact vehemently denying what is right in front of them as a way of playing the victim card to the media. I have yet to see any in the denial camp actually come up with anything original. You can't criticize data as flawed or manipulated by scientists while simultaneously citing it to support your claims. This is why that camp gets to be called denalists. They are in denial and are intellectual hypocrites


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Robdemanc
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27 Dec 2011, 3:29 pm

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Its because people know its not a simple question of whether we are causing it or not. It involves too many variables and everyone knows the weather is unpredictable anyway and that we have been through warm/cold periods long before humans turned up.


What really bothers me is that some vile scrotes throw around disgusting slurs like "global warming denier", an obvious distasteful reference to the Shoah. Sick people.


The problem we have is that if we do nothing and it is eventually proved that it was caused by our industries and practices and the effects are devestating for the next generations then they will hate our generation on a scale of biblical proportions.



Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 3:30 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
The problem we have is that if we do nothing and it is eventually proved that it was caused by our industries and practices and the effects are devestating for the next generations then they will hate our generation on a scale of biblical proportions.


I'll bet the house and the car that it has nothing to do with us. Do you really think Mother Nature gives a toss about us and what we do?



Vigilans
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27 Dec 2011, 3:36 pm

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
The problem we have is that if we do nothing and it is eventually proved that it was caused by our industries and practices and the effects are devestating for the next generations then they will hate our generation on a scale of biblical proportions.


I'll bet the house and the car that it has nothing to do with us. Do you really think Mother Nature gives a toss about us and what we do?


There has been no equivalent to what is happening in all of natural history. Warming, cooling, thickening, thinning, but never over such a short period of time. Not that is known. The ocean is also seeing a rise in CO2 and the only other close event to this happened over thousands of years as well. A complex system sometimes needs very little to get it moving. Arguing over what caused it is ultimately fruitless and diversionary at this point, propaganda being played out by industry giants holding on to old technology in order to squeeze every last dollar out of it before moving on to what they, too, know is the only sustainable way of utilizing this planet's resources.

How can one acknowledge the local climate effects caused by industrial regions, urbanization or waste disposal and not also see how this accumulates and affects the rest of the world? Organisms have had a profound effect on the atmosphere and climate. We are now seeing ours


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Last edited by Vigilans on 27 Dec 2011, 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Robdemanc
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27 Dec 2011, 3:36 pm

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
The problem we have is that if we do nothing and it is eventually proved that it was caused by our industries and practices and the effects are devestating for the next generations then they will hate our generation on a scale of biblical proportions.


I'll bet the house and the car that it has nothing to do with us. Do you really think Mother Nature gives a toss about us and what we do?


Industry, farming, polution from cars has all added up. There is no doubt we have produced the increase in CO2, there is no doubt that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. At the same time we have deforrested most of the world. If global warming has nothing to with us then there should be a valid alternative idea for why the global temperature is rising consistently at this moment in time and there doesn't appear to be one.



Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 3:38 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
If global warming has nothing to with us then there should be a valid alternative idea for why the global temperature is rising consistently at this moment in time and there doesn't appear to be one.


I wish it was getting warmer, because I'm not feeling it. Have you been outside recently? It's bloody freezing.

The world has been getting cooler for the last 15 years.