Was violence the answer when it came to WW2?

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donnie_darko
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27 Dec 2011, 3:19 pm

Was violence and brute military force the only way to stop the Nazis?

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27 Dec 2011, 3:24 pm

You already made this thread before and my answer is still the same: Yes, and anyone who says otherwise is a moron

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Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 3:26 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Yes, and anyone who says otherwise is a moron

Genocidal tyrants like Hitler cannot be negotiated with. They need to be brought down by any means possible for the safety of the world's people.

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27 Dec 2011, 3:32 pm

If they had no one else to kill, I'm sure they would have stopped.

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27 Dec 2011, 5:10 pm

Tequila wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Yes, and anyone who says otherwise is a moron

Genocidal tyrants like Hitler cannot be negotiated with. They need to be brought down by any means possible for the safety of the world's people.

WWII is probably one of the most just wars in history.

A more interesting question would deal with allied strategic bombing.

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codarac
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27 Dec 2011, 5:59 pm

Hitler started a war with Poland over territory that had been taken from Germany after the Treaty of Versailles, after diplomacy had failed. He did not want a war with Britain; he admired the British Empire, and saw it as a civilizing force in the world. It was Britain's declaration of war against Germany that helped turn a German-Polish border war into a world war. Taking this into account, and taking into account the fact that by 1939 Britain had an Empire covering about a quarter of the world's land surface, it's amazing people still talk in such simplistic terms about how "Hitler wanted to take over the world".

But history is written by the winners.

Anyway, here's what Winston Churchill wrote in his book The Second World War (1960): "Germany´s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up its own exchange system from which world-finance couldn´t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig."

Master_Pedant
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27 Dec 2011, 6:10 pm

codarac wrote:

Hitler may not have wanted war with the Anglo-American countries, but he had pretty f*cking brutal ideas about what to do with Eurasia. Colonizing Russia and doing a whole lot of killing was a the game plan and, without attacks on the Western Front the Eastern Front would have gone on longer, dug deeper into Russia, but also result in more deaths before the Nazis got frozen in their tracks by winter. That and his execution of mass Jew-murderin, LGBT-murdering, and political dissident murdering was pretty f*cking awful. Unless you're going to wave away those facts with conspiracy theories and pseudo-history.

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27 Dec 2011, 6:12 pm

^^^

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3pm0veWQI[/youtube]

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Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 6:14 pm

Bear in mind that when Churchill released that book codarac that he was pretty senile by all accounts. He wasn't a well man during his second premiership in the 1950s for instance and he often ended up being seen as a bit ineffectual.

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27 Dec 2011, 6:18 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:

That and his execution of mass Jew-murderin, LGBT-murdering, and political dissident murdering was pretty f*cking awful. Unless you're going to wave away those facts with conspiracy theories and pseudo-history.

I don't know about LGBTs and political dissidents, but I'm not convinced that codarac would not sympathise with Jew-murdering. No conspiracy theories needed, I'm afraid.

Also, I don't know how someone can have read Mein Kampf (as I assume codarac has) and not be aware of what Hitler wanted to do as regards lebensraum and Eastern Europe.

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Tequila
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27 Dec 2011, 7:10 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Also, I don't know how someone can have read Mein Kampf (as I assume codarac has) and not be aware of what Hitler wanted to do as regards lebensraum and Eastern Europe.

It's just a bloody pity that so many millions had to die for this maniac to be stopped. That's the real tragedy.

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27 Dec 2011, 8:28 pm

I would say yes, but I recently read 'All Hell Let Loose' and had some of my triumphalist assumptions challenged.

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27 Dec 2011, 8:32 pm

codarac wrote:

Hi codarac,

For the quotation "Germany´s unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up its own exchange system from which world-finance couldn´t profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig," I can't locate either sentence in Churchill's "The Second World War". The USA edition I'm looking in consists of the volumes: "The Gathering Storm", "Their Finest Hour", "The Grand Alliance", "The Hinge of Fate", "Closing the Ring", and concludes with "Triumph and Tragedy."

An internet search just returns mainly questionable websites with the same vague references, and the ones with more specific references to works of Churchill, cite similar quotes not in Churchill's "The Second World War", but in other sources, and out of context to the subject as presented here.

Tadzio

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27 Dec 2011, 8:50 pm

Oh btw, more or less related, but my grand-father brought us a few war trophies from WW2. ^^; Including a first edition of Mein Kampf. There're other things, such as a nazi knife or somesort, and other things I can't quite remember.

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27 Dec 2011, 9:17 pm

phil777 wrote:

OMFG ur granfather is a natzi LOLoLL

Just kidding that's pretty awesome

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27 Dec 2011, 11:15 pm

Actually, was a french commander who wasn't in France when it became occupied and went to Algeria with his squad while waiting for the order to take back France. I even has link wif a pictoor (rest of website in french). He even made it to Hitler's retreat when the French invaded Germany. :p

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