The Bible

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24 Dec 2011, 6:02 am

During the last couple of weeks I have been reading the Old and New testament, which I have done before around christmas. It is not an easy read to say the least. It is old text, repetitive, confusing, and often disturbing. Some of it sounds nice and pleasent, put then you turn a page and it sounds horrific.

I think I can safely say that it is not a book that has been written for people to make sense out of. It reads more like it has been written to confound people.

The stories in it seem to range from epic war accounts to mundane soap saga's. There is magic and mystery mixed with practical guidence (for the bronze age at least).

When reading it I am quite shocked that these stories are promoted to children.

In a nutshel it appears the OT is a justification for war, pillage, and repression. While the NT starts off magical and kind of sweet, only to descend into a justification for pride and intolerance.

Am I being too critical? Am I missing something?

What does the Bible mean to you?

stgiordanobruno
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24 Dec 2011, 8:35 am

Just another book, I don't see why there is so much fuss made over it.

ruveyn
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24 Dec 2011, 12:11 pm

Robdemanc wrote:

You are missing the oral tradition. You cannot really understand what you heathens call the Old Testament without the oral tradition.

ruveyn

Robdemanc
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24 Dec 2011, 2:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

You are missing the oral tradition. You cannot really understand what you heathens call the Old Testament without the oral tradition.

ruveyn

What is the oral tradition?

leejosepho
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25 Dec 2011, 8:13 am

Robdemanc wrote:

What is the oral tradition?

In my own words, I would say it is like a "working knowledge" of Scripture that can help with comprehension and perspective.

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Robdemanc
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26 Dec 2011, 5:58 am

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

What is the oral tradition?

In my own words, I would say it is like a "working knowledge" of Scripture that can help with comprehension and perspective.

And what does that mean? What is this "working knowledge"?

Words are words, and the words in the bible are often quite explicit rather than implicit. I reject the notion that all of the bible is metaphorical, there are some books that appear to be very explicit in what they are telling us. The OT reads like a history of the "Children of Israel", and if that is the history they have then if I were a Jew, Christian, or Muslim, I would put as much distance I could between myself and the OT.

leejosepho
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26 Dec 2011, 6:23 am

Robdemanc wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

What is the oral tradition?

In my own words, I would say it is like a "working knowledge" of Scripture that can help with comprehension and perspective.

And what does that mean? What is this "working knowledge"?

Comprehending nuances or whatever and having things in perspective after having lived it oneself or after having been taught (as orally passed down with emphasis and inflection) by others who had.

Robdemanc wrote:

The OT reads like a history of the "Children of Israel", and if that is the history they have then if I were a Jew, Christian, or Muslim, I would put as much distance I could between myself and the OT.

They were delivered from bondage, provided for and given an everlasting manner of good and right fellowship and worship ...

... and personally, I have learned to embrace that after having it all made clear to me.

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ruveyn
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26 Dec 2011, 6:45 am

Robdemanc wrote:

In a nutshel it appears the OT is a justification for war, pillage, and repression. While the NT starts off magical and kind of sweet, only to descend into a justification for pride and intolerance.

Life in the late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age was not particularly sweet.

The folks of the bible were Primitives. And there was no concept of Rights back in those "good old days".

ruveyn

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26 Dec 2011, 7:01 am

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

What is the oral tradition?

In my own words, I would say it is like a "working knowledge" of Scripture that can help with comprehension and perspective.

And what does that mean? What is this "working knowledge"?

Comprehending nuances or whatever and having things in perspective after having lived it oneself or after having been taught (as orally passed down with emphasis and inflection) by others who had.

In other words had it interpreted for you?

Robdemanc
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26 Dec 2011, 7:04 am

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

They were delivered from bondage (after 'borrowing' the belongings of the Egyptians), left in the wilderness, then given commandments and laws, told to build an army, then urged to destroy city after city, loot what wasn't theirs, kill men, women and children. This is not a "manner of good".

ruveyn
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26 Dec 2011, 12:39 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Robdemanc wrote:

What is the oral tradition?

In my own words, I would say it is like a "working knowledge" of Scripture that can help with comprehension and perspective.

No. It is the set of midrashim taught by the Rabbis and Sages. The Levites (of which Moses was one) were charged with hearing cases and teaching how the Torah (Halachah) applies in particular cases or types of cases. There are also rules for reconciling seeming contradictions in the text (Tanach)..

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baraita_of_Rabbi_Ishmael

ruveyn

leejosepho
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27 Dec 2011, 6:56 am

Robdemanc wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Comprehending nuances or whatever and having things in perspective after having lived it oneself or after having been taught (as orally passed down with emphasis and inflection) by others who had.

In other words had it interpreted for you?

I would say something more like having it explained (rather than spun), but I do understand many folks would still call that a mere "interpretation".

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leejosepho
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27 Dec 2011, 7:02 am

Robdemanc wrote:

They were delivered from bondage (after 'borrowing' the belongings of the Egyptians) ...

I might be wrong, but I thought they were given some things and encouraged to leave ... and then the Pharaoh changed his mind and drowned while trying to bring them back.

Robdemanc wrote:

... left in the wilderness ...

... and provided for well ....

Robdemanc wrote:

... then given commandments and laws, told to build an army, then urged to destroy city after city, loot what wasn't theirs, kill men, women and children. This is not a "manner of good".

That would be an opinion or interpretation or "spin", but I have been taught that stuff all indicates something else.

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blunnet
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27 Dec 2011, 1:22 pm

Robdemanc wrote:

What does the Bible mean to you?

ruveyn wrote:

Life in the late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age was not particularly sweet.

The folks of the bible were Primitives. And there was no concept of Rights back in those "good old days".

Fnord
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27 Dec 2011, 1:27 pm

The Bible is a collection of largely apocryphal stories that have been edited for the purpose of ensuring a continuing income for those who claim that it explains why people should be kept ignorant, impoverished, and submissive to dictatorial religious authority.

donnie_darko
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27 Dec 2011, 1:39 pm

Yeah, I do love the Gospels, but the later books of the NT, some of which pre-date the Gospels btw, are almost as vengeful and violent as the OT.

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