Last Call for Christianity

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EDIT 31 May 2012 18:42 EDT: Sorry if I wasn't clear, there is not a Society of Truth yet.
I envisioned it as not so much an evangelism, but a group of people taking a new approach to faith: You can believe something, but that doesn't mean you can't question it logically. Humans can tell the difference between faith (believing something) and reason (figuring out something), and we can tell which ideas fit into which category. The main difference from other churches is that it would make an effort to defend Scripture with reason. It would NOT try to replace reason with Scripture.
I'm very sorry if that was not intelligible from my first post.

Dear followers of Christ:
It is our duty and our honor to show the glory of God to those who have not found Him, to be the ones to point people to the Truth that we have been so privileged to know, to share with others the Power that lives in us and reveals to us a world of understanding that we could never have imagined.
Allow me to be so stereotypically blunt as to say: We have failed miserably.
People say that Christians are hypocrites, always urging the world to live one way but neglecting it themselves. We have done little but be exactly the way they describe us, adding fire to their bigotry. They say that there is no God, or that the Bible has long since been refuted, and there is no one to answer them. They say we are lazy and that we hurt humanity and do not help it, and we focus on our high and lofty things, waiting to show the Truth to the world until another time.
Time is up. And Christianity needs people to be dedicated, faithful, and well-reasoning. I know there are people like that on this site.
This is the beginning of a ministry called the Society of Truth. Not that we live together, just that we'd work together: When people said our faith was false, we would answer them! And when there is something that needs to be done, we would do it. It is made of people who are committed to truth and reason as well as faith and service.
If you're interested, please reply or message me.

Last edited by truth15ful on 31 May 2012, 5:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Claiming a monopoly on the truth is one of those things that tends to get your bunch in a whole lot of trouble. It's arrogant. "Pride goeth before the fall," as you people say.

I believe I'm right about Christianity, but I know there is a world of truth/knowledge I don't know. What exactly do you mean, a monopoly on the truth?

Your problem is that you take your Holy Book literally. Big mistake.

This planet is over 4 billion years old. All your biblical nonsense cannot change that.

ruveyn

That's the problem with science, we need an eyewitness to know for sure
Here's a way to know the Bible is accurate:
Science and the Bible

No you don't. The age is written into the rocks. A radiometric measurement of the oldest rock on the planet indicates over 4 billion years.

No one ever saw an atom, but the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki will testify that atoms are real.

And no living person has seen God. Why should we take anyone's word for it?

ruveyn

@truth15ful, your opening post seems to be full of hyperbole and evangelicalism but short on content. I don't know where you are in the world, but in my part of Europe Christianity is generally regarded as irrelevant to people's lives. There is little or nothing of relevance in the bible to anyone. It is a mixture of legends and myths, many of which have been dispelled by advances in knowledge such as the age of the earth as Ruveyn mentions, there are also the facts of evolution and of cosmology. The bible is useless as a source of knowledge about our planet, the universe, biology, geology, chemistry, physics etc.

You could claim the bible is the purveyor of morality but even here it fails and is full of hateful acts by your God. Morality itself is independent of Christianity anyway, most humans have an innate sense of morality towards one another that can be summarised as "treat others as you would like to be treated yourself". They don't need some hell fire preacher to threaten them with eternal damnation to prevent them from going around murdering, raping and stealing. Those that are going to transgress these innate human laws are going to do so regardless of what some old book says anyway.

Frankly I see no reason why Christianity (or any other religion) should not continue to fall into irrelevance and obscurity where it belongs, of interest only to historians.

OK, but we know Christians by their fruits. So I disagree that we have failed, at least in a general way. Those of us who really put our faith in Christ feel a strong conviction to share what we know and point the way to Truth. You're not talking to Christianity as a whole, but rather to those of no faith or weak faith.

Jesus once said, "Oh, you of little faith! Why did you doubt?" Remember also what else Jesus said about "little faith" when He talked about "faith like a mustard seed." Our faith may often be "little," but it is a little faith that is growing, not dying.

Be careful when you criticize your Christian brothers whose faith hasn't quite grown so much yet. We are all works in progress.


Are people really talking about Christianity, or are they referring to false religion? I believe there is a difference between people calling themselves Christians and people who really are. If you are a hypocrite and still call yourself "Christian," I'd say you're a counterfeit. Now, I don't believe that true Christians are perfect either, but all we have is the evidence we bring. I would think if someone was being a hypocrite and had Christ living in him, someone pointing out his hypocrisy would be quick to change his ways. Counterfeit Christians accused of hypocrisy will remain steadfast in it.

Another thing to consider is that what Christ teaches is not for everyone. I mean, sure, Christ wants EVERYONE to come to the Father, but He already knows that not everyone WILL. Christ calls all people to REPENT. And when Christians call other to come to faith and repent, they are asking sinners to admit that they are sinners unworthy of God's grace. Some sinners, if you confront them with their wickedness, will shout right back that they are doing nothing wrong, that they are not sinners, that they do not need to repent, that Christians are being judgmental hypocrites even if we are telling the truth. If someone can't humble themselves and admit that he is a sinner, he cannot come before God and accept Jesus with the right heart. Jesus came to instruct those who are ready for the gospel, not those who already believe they are self-justified by their own works.


Time is up when Jesus returns. The numbers of the living faithful will periodically grow and decline as it always has, but we are far from dead. Christians have always been dedicated, faithful, and well-reasoning. Admittedly, we could stand for some improvement on the well-reasoning part. But, on the other hand, "well-reasoning" assumes the strength of the human mind, and I believe that pales in comparison with the mind of God. We can only do our best, but we need to also be aware of our place in God's order. Not everyone is that sophisticated. Better than reasoning, Christians need to be equipped to speak from their experiences, which have been the best testimony to what we believe as it has been all the way since Biblical times.


Um..."Save" Christianity? Christianity isn't in any danger. What does it need saving from?

I agree that Christians should always have an answer, that we should be committed to truth and reason. And I do think Christians should work to equip each other for evangelism on all levels, including the ability to confront pseudo-intellectual challenges to the faith.

The bad news is that Christianity is not without those claiming to have some new insight or revelation--which is fine to a degree. But we have also known from the beginning that we are to challenge those revelations to be sure that they are consistent with scripture and that they really do come from the Spirit. Intimating that Christianity is in danger is a big red flag to me that someone has an agenda. The last thing any of us want is to be scammed.

First, there are multiple problems with radiometric dating(1). Second, you don't have to see something to know it's there. Think about the law of entropy: When things collide, the energy turns into heat. When things explode, they cannot be put back together. All types of energy turns into heat, and heat dissipates. Places in space are always becoming less distinct from each other, and less and less work can be done. Where did this cycle start? Things do not "undecay", so it had to have a beginning.

Alright, let's do it... tell the truth of Christianity, and apply it to the modern times. It's a facade set up around a fantasy novel to be loosely interpreted by a central hierarchy of individuals with political ties to manipulate the public into behaving various ways. As Plato saw, it's a shepherds crook. The biggest and most important concept it teaches is "Faith". The idea that you don't need to question what happens in the world, you just need to know it's always in your interest, even as you suffer. What faith truly teaches is apathy, an apathy of one's self. You go into church, and read from the bible, then are explained with twenty-fold the words of the bible, how "God's" word is relevant in current issues. But it is not truly relevant... there was a time when religion helped spread profound virtues that completely changed the world. Ideas like "eye for an eye" were very important for human progress, but that was in time when, if you killed someone's son, they would kill your entire family. Nowadays the relevance is more attune to that of patriotism. After faith, "unity" is the concept that drives modern religion. Getting everyone together, on the same page, holding the same corrupted values. United We Hate; those who oppose our version of democracy, those who reject our corporate takeovers of oil and water, those who reject our vision of the future, those who would dare live independently. Together we can overcome these godless inferior sub-humans. Now that we have faith in God's cause and are unified to overcome those who oppose his will, we may fight.. and die... "wait, I dont wanna die". "Fear not my child, you are mine and I shall protect you forever". The third most important concept of Christianity, the devaluation of life itself. The idea that this life is just a passing phase, and if you live it in accordance with my teachings, you shall reach something that's lyk totally more awesomer than this. If you're a dick and you go against the grain... well f**k you, eternal torture, RAWR. This is the most disturbing concept it offers to me... make no mistake about it, this is all that you get, this life here is your one chance to see the world, any world. Don't waste it away chained by mental tyrants, go out and f****n enjoy it.

True, there are people who are VERY committed to sharing the Truth with the world, but in my experience those people are few & far between. And where we have almost all failed is at remembering that EVERYthing that is real and true reflects something about God because He created everything. And if we really believe that, we should be ready to answer anyone who says our faith is wrong. We have the ability to reason, not perfectly, but well. We need to use it, and that's where we've failed.

OK, that was a poor choice of words, especially the "save Christianity" part. But when I said Time's up, I was talking about what I said in the last paragraph, about waiting until another time to show the Truth to the world. I'll go back and edit my post.

So what? If something had to have a beginning it doesn't mean it was magically created by some pink fluffy unicorn, oh wait a minute, you mean God? I can't see the fluffy pink unicorn but I believe in him and he lives inside my kitchen cupboard, I hear him scratching about at night and he eats little bits of cheese I leave lying around.

And regarding the problems with radiometric dating, I've come across this Christian bull before, people drawing on very selective evidence and ignoring the rest. Some folks with no scientific background may accept the bull about the earth being only 6k years old, but anyone with at least 101 science knows it is vastly older.

The bible is like I said earlier, just a collection of legends and myths written at a time when mankind didn't know any better how the earth formed etc.

Christians are really clutching at straws nowadays. Even the Catholic church acknowledges evolution is a fact along with the earth being 4 billion years old. Frankly anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves or not doing their research. Let the facts speak for themselves. Go to university and study the sciences, you might learn a thing or two. Don't rely on propaganda from ill-informed websites purporting to tell "the truth".

So you think people are preaching Christianity for their own personal gain... Then consider this: Jesus Himself was betrayed by those who would go on to be the highest authorities of the early church. The Bible used women as some of the first eyewitnesses to Jesus's works at a time when women's testimonies were not considered reliable. There are always some people who are being persecuted because they follow God and nobody else. Time and time again, Christianity finds itself in opposition to other authorities, and it is in fact these times which prove most beneficial for the church.
And it is a fallacy to say that because Christianity gives people comfort and tells them that they are safe, that somehow makes it false or needing to be rejected. True, it is a problem when people believe Christianity only for these reasons or focus on them when they try to evangelize to people, but that is the very thing I am trying to work against.

Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true. Likewise, just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's false. The link I posted earlier (here) has some very good points. Please look at the arguments more than just the credentials. More often than people think, it's the lesser-known thinkers who find some simple holes in complicated ideas (like evolution, for instance) and end up being right.

Promised?

That site might be a little biased