Does the Filibuster serve the interests of the US Senate?

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Does the Ffilibuster serve the interests of the US Senate?
Yes. The Senate is the cooling pot of democracy. 36%  36%  [ 4 ]
Sometimes. 60 votes to pick a national ice cream flavor? 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
No. If you want to stop something, stand on the floor and talk! 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
No. 50%+1 is good enough for the House, should be good enough for the Senate. 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
There's a national ice cream flavor? 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Point of Order! (other/please explain) 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 11

AgentPalpatine
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19 Apr 2013, 11:03 am

This was spun off from another thread, becuase that was too closely tied to other matters.

Does the Filibuster serve the interests of the US Senate?

As currently applied, it takes 60 votes, or the appearance of 60 votes, to cut off debate on some form of pending business. In effect, this imposes a 60 vote requirement to move highly contested legislation or nominations to a floor vote.

There are 2 major exceptions. Spending and Fiscal bills go under a different set of rules (which are beyond my understanding), and 2/3 of the Senate is required to consent and ratificiation of a treaty.

The modern form came about after the 1960s and 1970s, when the "two-track" system allowed any member to express opposition to a piece of pending legislation, which could lead to a full-blown filibuster.

This poll is not covering the "Blue Slip" system, which customarily refers to the privlidge of a sitting senator from a state to informally block nominees to offices in that state. For instance, the Senator from....say....Alaska can question nominations to be US Attorney for that judical district.


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Jacoby
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19 Apr 2013, 11:17 am

Integral part of democracy, the rights of the minority must be protected. This is not mob rule. You hear the Democrats whine about the the filibuster but they were whining about George Bush plotting to get rid of the filibuster just a few short years ago.

The whining about the gun bills is just political theater. It had ZERO chance of passing in the house and Democrats crossed the aisle in the senate to vote against them too. The Republican proposals actually received more votes and were blocked by the Democrats.



GGPViper
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19 Apr 2013, 12:50 pm

... Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the question: "Does the Filibuster serve the interests of the citizens of US?"



xenon13
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19 Apr 2013, 1:10 pm

Silly rules to allow one person to gum up the works is what led to the partition of Poland.



visagrunt
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19 Apr 2013, 1:13 pm

I whileheartedly agree, GGPViper. And I will go so far as to say that it does.

Because you live in what is effectively a two-party state, the ability of a simple majority to entirely coopt the legislative process is a significant danger. While filibuster cannot stand in the way of a majority that is content to allow an issue to be talked out, it does serve to focus public attention on a subject, and can exercise a level of political influence that can sway results.

When minority members act to highlight policy with which they disagree; and when the majority acts to silence the minority, both of these acts propel the question at hand to the political radar of the body politic (well, that part of the body politic that bothers to keep itself aware of the news of the day).

The United States Senate is an extraordinarily powerful and complex institution. It has significant responsibilities beyond those of the House, and it has fewer members with which to discharge those responsibilities. It is not in the least surprising, therefore, that complex rules have arisen to govern its proceedings.


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Jacoby
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19 Apr 2013, 1:17 pm

The Senate is not the House. We've only been directly electing senators for the last 100 years. The Senate was suppose to represent the states and the House was suppose to represent the people. If the Senate is just 50+1 then what is the point of even having it? How does it differ at all from the House?



GGPViper
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19 Apr 2013, 2:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The Senate is not the House. We've only been directly electing senators for the last 100 years. The Senate was suppose to represent the states and the House was suppose to represent the people. If the Senate is just 50+1 then what is the point of even having it? How does it differ at all from the House?

The House has between 527,624 (Rhode Island) and 994,416 (Montana) voters per seat - a factor of 1.88 to 1 between highest and lowest.

The Senate has between 284,150 (Wyoming) and 18,670,995 (California) voters per seat - a factor of 65.71 to 1 between highest and lowest.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/Census10/ ... Sena#table

In other words: The Senate most definitely represents States.



AgentPalpatine
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19 Apr 2013, 5:32 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Silly rules to allow one person to gum up the works is what led to the partition of Poland.


If memory served, that was a rule that allowed one duke to veto any actions. 60 votes to limit each senator to one hour of debate is a little different.


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xenon13
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19 Apr 2013, 8:14 pm

Russia and Prussia knew it was paralysing Poland so they forbade any attempts to change the rule. They used it to help themselves until Poland disappeared from the map.



AgentPalpatine
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20 Apr 2013, 2:57 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Because you live in what is effectively a two-party state, the ability of a simple majority to entirely coopt the legislative process is a significant danger. While filibuster cannot stand in the way of a majority that is content to allow an issue to be talked out, it does serve to focus public attention on a subject, and can exercise a level of political influence that can sway results.

When minority members act to highlight policy with which they disagree; and when the majority acts to silence the minority, both of these acts propel the question at hand to the political radar of the body politic (well, that part of the body politic that bothers to keep itself aware of the news of the day).

The United States Senate is an extraordinarily powerful and complex institution. It has significant responsibilities beyond those of the House, and it has fewer members with which to discharge those responsibilities. It is not in the least surprising, therefore, that complex rules have arisen to govern its proceedings.


See: Rand Paul's 2013 filibuster. Just like in the "old days", those few hours of talking put him at the top of the national agenda for days, and may have changed the balance of power inside the GOP.

It's interesting that you arn't seeing anywhere near as many filibusters on fiscal matters, if only because neither side wants to commit to a public showdown vote on those issues. The last major fiscal policy bill was passed overwelmingly by the senate, and none of the "no"'s were willing to put an objection down.

Now, interestingly enough, most of the US government has been on continuing resolutions (CR) for 2 years now, and I think that has more to do with the weakness of the approprations commitees than the filibuster. See the House and Senate committees forcing (House) Speaker Boehner to support a partial change to the post-sequester CR for 4 agencies, instead of the orginially passed change for only DoD.


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Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)