Does every conservative have a disdain for the world?

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GinBlossoms
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04 Dec 2013, 11:54 pm

Does every "conservative" in the United States ever think of people in places besides ours as better off than we are? It's messed up that people like Bill O'Reilly and Fox News nitpick everything that has to do with anything that isn't American. The rhetoric contradicts my views on society, which is why I stopped associating with the conservative movement.



American
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05 Dec 2013, 12:17 am

GinBlossoms wrote:
Does every "conservative" in the United States ever think of people in places besides ours as better off than we are? It's messed up that people like Bill O'Reilly and Fox News nitpick everything that has to do with anything that isn't American. The rhetoric contradicts my views on society, which is why I stopped associating with the conservative movement.


I love America and, although my political views would seem random to most, I align myself more with conservatives. However, some countries are better in some ways than America but when viewed in it's totality America is definitely the best country that exists and ever has existed, notwithstanding Obama's seemingly intentional efforts to destroy America.



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05 Dec 2013, 1:03 am

It amazes me how little most people understand about eachother worldviews. The premise if flawed, and obviously partisan as presented but I can andress your premise as a Libertarian I have conservative friends and understand much of their points.

To a conservative there are some issues that are vital for happiness, just as to a Liberal there are in return.

1. Show a 1st world economy with the freedom to own firearms, and defend ones self with the choices Americans have..
2. Show a 1st world economy with a low tax rate, where folks keep what they earn and can control their money as Americans can.
3. Show a 1st world economy with large expanses of affordable land within suburbia and outside cities as America.
4. Show a 1st world economy with the religious freedoms that the US does, as most conservatives are religious in America.
5. Show a 1st world economy with the constitutional security to preserve the above benefits.

If you can't, then it sucks in a conservatives mind. Seeing it as nitpicking can be said about liberal issues as well...but the premise would still be wrong. Groups have standards. I moved from New York (a liberal crime ridden hell hole), where I lived for 27yrs and was born to live in the Paradise state of Montana. My communist brother in law in return hates Montana, and loves New York.

Our standards are different, I'm a libertarian in a purple state..He's a Communist in a blue state. I'll never get conservatives and liberals desire to control others, be it guns,drugs,sex, or what have you. The points perspective, either you understand something or you won't depending on where your looking from.


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sonofghandi
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05 Dec 2013, 12:00 pm

AutisticMillionaire wrote:
1. Show a 1st world economy with the freedom to own firearms, and defend ones self with the choices Americans have.


Quote:
BUYING/OWNING GUNS – LAW JUST AS PERMISSIVE AS OURS

As to buying and owning guns, European laws are generally as permissive as American. It is true that you need a special permit to buy a 9 mm. handgun in many European nations. What ignorant American gun prohibitionists don’t understand is that this is a special control on “military-caliber weapons.” Similar controls ban military caliber rifles without special permission. But there is no restriction on other rifles or on handguns in, for instance, .380, .38 Super, 9mm Ultra and many more powerful handguns e.g., any of the magnums or .40 S&W, .45 auto, .45 Long Colt, .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, 475 Linebaugh, .480, .500 and other powerful handguns.

ITALY – GUN LAWS

Unlike residents of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts or California, law abiding responsible Italians can buy any revolver or semi-auto they want. No permit is required nor is there any waiting period. Though the handgun must be registered, buying it involves less fuss and red tape than Americans face even in Texas.

AUSTRIA – GUN LAWS

Austrians require permits for semi-automatic pistols but not to buy a revolver. Moreover law abiding responsible adults have a specific legal right to a permit for a semi-automatic pistol for home defense.

AUSTRIAN CARRY PERMITS

Permits to carry are much more available to law abiding Austrians than to Americans in New York, Massachusetts or California. For a population of over 37 million, California has about 40,000 carry permits. For its population of around seven million, Austria has over 200,000 carry permits.

FRANCE, GERMANY – GUN LAWS

In France and Germany permits (easily available to responsible adult householders) are required to possess a handgun of modern design. But if you are satisfied with a cowboy-style gun, France requires no permit at all to buy a newly manufactured revolver of pre-1895 design.

...

There are no magazine size restrictions on semi-autos.


reference

AutisticMillionaire wrote:
2. Show a 1st world economy with a low tax rate, where folks keep what they earn and can control their money as Americans can.


Max tax rates:

US: 55.9% (max of federal+state+local)

Canada: 54.75% (max of federal + provincial)

Denmark: 51.7%

Australia: 45% + 1.5% (Medicare levy) + 4.75%-6% (state)

UK: 35%

Switzerland: 13.2%

Norway: 47.8%

New Zealand: 33%

Finland: 30% national 21% municipal

Luxemborg: 40% + 12.45% social security

Russia: 13% (for residents), 30% (for nonresidents)

Japan: 50% (40% national + 10% local)

Italy: 43%

Germany: 45%

AutisticMillionaire wrote:
3. Show a 1st world economy with large expanses of affordable land within suburbia and outside cities as America.


Canada.

If you get a little more specific about what you consider affordable, I can give you more examples. If you mean average wage/property costs, then the US is far behind many 1st world countries.

AutisticMillionaire wrote:
4. Show a 1st world economy with the religious freedoms that the US does, as most conservatives are religious in America.


Most of Western Europe, with the added advantage that many of those nations do not have politicians that use religious values as the basis of their political campaigns or in their political debates.

AutisticMillionaire wrote:
5. Show a 1st world economy with the constitutional security to preserve the above benefits.


Again, most of Western Europe, although not all countries call it "The Constitution."

I'[m not saying that the US isn't one of the best places to live (if you manage to keep yourself above the poverty line), just that we aren't #1 in these categories. Your original statement of including the word "overall" would be accurate IMO, but pulling out individual specifics is problematic in many ways.


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AutisticMillionaire
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05 Dec 2013, 2:29 pm

Wow, so basically are you saying a place like Austria I can own an AR15 in M4 configuration. Put a slidefire on (to increase the rate of fire to around 700 rounds per minute) and toss a 100 round drum on it like the we can in the US? In our home for our defense....really?
Image
If not then they don't have comparable gun freedoms to a conservative, as the AR15 is the most popular rifle in America. The above gun is not even registered (as my state does not do that). I really don't believe I could own this in Europe without permits, or at all. (please correct me if I can.)

So unless you show a place where you can own this, they don't have comparable gun laws. They can't have gun registration, as most conservative states don't.. I never registered a gun in my life. So Italy fails, Austria fails, France and Germany fails. So I'm still waiting.

Sonofghandi, all you did was list a few disjointed items of what nation has features but you have not listed one with ALL the benchmarks a conservative needs. With every feature at least equal to the US or better. Random stats, that are incomplete are not an argument making any pointm it's more a distraction. The tax numbers you list are without context, they don't offer the other freedoms asked for. It's like I order a Pizza and you gave me rubber tire... It's an all or none question, you either name a nation with all features or fail. It's a fail so far...

Without listing a single nation with all 5 traits asked, you render your answer moot... It's not complete.

I hear Belize has many freedoms, many conservatives are building summer homes and whatnot there. So there's a place conservatives don't disdain.

So I guess it's "proven" for now, in the eyes of a conservative America is paradise and the world sucks...

(I'm not a "Conservative" I'm a pro-legalization of Drugs, marry-who-you-want, Libertarian... but I can understand the viewpoints of both Liberals and Conservatives.)

America is unique in that it offers both the Right and Left the option to live in a state fitting their interests. If you love guns and hate pot, move to right wing Texas, if you hate guns and love pot move to left wing California. If you love pot and guns, move to independent Montana. Confusing choice/needs with disdain is not accurate, do gay men disdain vaginas? Just because a liberal place is attractive to you, don't expect it to be to conservatives, but it's not disdain.


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The_Walrus
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05 Dec 2013, 2:56 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
Max tax rates:

UK: 35%

Is that corporation tax or capital gains tax or...?

Income tax is 45%+ National Insurance for top earners.

In answer to Autistic Millionaire: Canada, except for the gun thing



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05 Dec 2013, 3:09 pm

AutisticMillionaire wrote:

5. Show a 1st world economy with the constitutional security to preserve the above benefits.

.


What ever happened to the 4 th amendment?

Pay attention to the news. Your privacy ain't worth sh*t.

ruveyn



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05 Dec 2013, 4:34 pm

[quote="AutisticMillionaireSonofghandi, all you did was list a few disjointed items of what nation has features but you have not listed one with ALL the benchmarks a conservative needs. With every feature at least equal to the US or better. Random stats, that are incomplete are not an argument making any pointm it's more a distraction. The tax numbers you list are without context, they don't offer the other freedoms asked for. It's like I order a Pizza and you gave me rubber tire... It's an all or none question, you either name a nation with all features or fail. It's a fail so far...

Without listing a single nation with all 5 traits asked, you render your answer moot... It's not complete.
[/quote]

You missed what I wrote at the end of my post. I do think that overall the US is the best. I just have a problem with you trying to pull out some fairly specific items that can easily be contested. If you want to hand pick 5 traits for any country you could use that to "prove" that that country is #1 overall.

for example:

Syria
1. proud tradition of oral and written poetry
2. free education
3. fossil fuel independence
4. personal tax rate<25%
5. life expectancy >75


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sonofghandi
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05 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
Max tax rates:

UK: 35%

Is that corporation tax or capital gains tax or...?

Income tax is 45%+ National Insurance for top earners.

In answer to Autistic Millionaire: Canada, except for the gun thing


Oops, was in the wrong cloumn for that one. 45% is the correct number (+25.8% insurance for top earners)

A few others that need correcting:

Canada: 54.75% (max of federal + provincial) + 1.78% EI

Russia: 13% (for residents), 30% (for nonresidents) + 30% payroll (10% for SME, 14% for IT industry) before annual salary exceeds 568000 RUB, 10% thereafter

Germany: 45% + 15% for one of the many public health insurances (fixed rate by law), as well as a solidarity tax (depending on income) and a 26% social security tax (retirement + unemployment)
which puts Germany higher than the US

and a correction for the US: additional payroll taxes 2.9-15.3%(federal) + 0%-2% (state) + 0%-2% (locality employment)


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