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ArrantPariah
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24 Jan 2013, 10:06 pm

http://www.theworld.org/2013/01/china-leftover-women/

Quote:
....“I argue that the ‘leftover women’ term is actually part of a sexist media campaign by the government, which is facing a severe demographic crisis,” says Leta Hong-Fincher, an American doing her sociology Ph.D at Tsinghua University in Beijing. She’s written about the leftover women phenomenon, and she says state-run media started using the term in 2007, the same year the government warned that China’s gender imbalance – caused by selective abortions because of the one-child policy – was a serious problem. “Ever since 2007, the state media have aggressively disseminated this term, in surveys, and news reports, and columns, and cartoons and pictures, basically stigmatizing educated women over the age of 27 or 30 who are still single.”

But the gender imbalance in China is one of too many men. There are an estimated 20 million more men under 30 than women under 30. So why the pressure on women to marry — specifically, educated, urban women? Huang Yingying says it has something to do with men wanting to marry down.

“There is an opinion that A quality guys will find B quality women, B quality guys will find C quality women, and C quality men will find D quality women,” Huang says. “The people left are A quality women and D quality men. So if you are a leftover woman, you are A quality.” But it’s the “A” quality women the government most wants to procreate, to improve the ‘quality’ of the population, according to Leta Hong-Fincher.

...So the state-run media keep up a barrage of messages aimed at picky educated women. Here’s an excerpt from one titled, “Leftover Women Do Not Deserve Our Sympathy.”

Quote:
“Pretty girls do not need a lot of education to marry into a rich and powerful family. But girls with an average or ugly appearance will find it difficult. These girls hope to further their education in order to increase their competitiveness. The tragedy is, they don’t realize that as women age, they are worth less and less. So by the time they get their MA or Ph.D, they are already old – like yellowed pearls.”


Ouch.


Here is a cute little ditty

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Cs8HqY1dg[/youtube]



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Jan 2013, 10:36 pm

How can there be left over women in a country where there's a state instituted one child birth preference and many rural families want a male? Seems like China will need to import women from other places at some point. The men will not be able to find brides. They will take any women they can get.



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24 Jan 2013, 10:45 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can there be left over women in a country where there's a state instituted one child birth preference and many rural families want a male? Seems like China will need to import women from other places at some point. The men will not be able to find brides. They will take any women they can get.


http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/pictures ... wives.html



techstepgenr8tion
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24 Jan 2013, 10:48 pm

Wow, we've effectively spread our disease. 8O

Perhaps the next step would be for their A quality women turning to gangsters and convicts.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2013, 12:26 am

The A quality women could marry rich guys from overseas and leave the country? Then what would China do? Their population would be watered down, or so they think. These people have too much time on their hands, looks like, to spend time worrying about this bs.



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25 Jan 2013, 5:14 am

Quote:
The tragedy is, they don’t realize that as women age, they are worth less and less. So by the time they get their MA or Ph.D, they are already old – like yellowed pearls.


The tragedy is: The person speaking don´t realize that as people talk nonsense, they are worth less and less. So by the time, they get to the part telling that a 23 year old woman would be less "worth" then an 18 year old woman, their brain has already surrendered. :lmao:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can there be left over women in a country where there's a state instituted one child birth preference and many rural families want a male? Seems like China will need to import women from other places at some point. The men will not be able to find brides. They will take any women they can get.


Th eproblem is, for centuries women in asia had the status "things". Things you need to buy, to get heirs. Things you need to buy, so you can have sex. Things you buy, so you dont need to do the housework. If you were richer and had a better status, you also could spend more money for good quality, so you bought a thing that was trained to play music, or was trained to give so much effort on her externals, that the women become a kind of art herself, like a precious jade statue you could show your friends to show how wealthy you are. Just think of the crippled feet women had to have if they were not from the lowered classes. So women just existed as a thing to please men or to work, at lower classes. Thats why women of lower classes had no crippled feet, because the men couldnt afford such precious art "things", they did not have the money to loose the advantage of the work "thing".

For Chinese society it was completely normal that female newborns, were thrown on the streets if not wanted. To remove the bodies of the dead babies was normal part of the streetworkes, that had to clean the streets of the garbage in the morning. Garbage included these corpses.

When christian monks came to China the first years, people thought that they would do bloody rituals or such things. It was because this monks created orphan houses, and took some of that unwanted thrown away babies. But the people could not believe them, that someone would collect that garbage, because he would see a worth in it. Its as if someone told you, that you would collect dog s**t from the street to praise your god. So they thought the priests and monks would be lying to the people, and in reality wanted the children for other causes, including pedestery or bloody religious rituals.

So many things has changed, and the situations is now much better, but still its in many peoples head that women would be worth less. So if a man was forced to have an equal marriage, he feels as if he was lowering his status and worth. Because if you are equal to something worth less then you, then this means that you are also worth less.

The problem is, whe as humans are afraid of things we dont know. So normally when we marry we stay around something we knew. So we normally know how people live in "our class", and the surrounding "classes" below and up. This is where we feel safe, because we know how it is to live that way, being with this people comforts us. The problem with this really godd educated women is, that the men in the "classes" around them also are good educated normally, so they have money and wealth.

And before lowering their worth marrying a woman that wants to have an equal marriage, where both have the some worth, meaning the man feels like worth less afterwards, they prefer to marry a women some status. Because if you only want a servant as wife anyway, it doesnt care if your servant wife comes from a servant class. So not the wealthy men are these that find no women in the end, but the poor ones.

Which leads to the problem, that in a society, in which patriarchy is still around and "men have to be the one supporting the family", being as much worth as a woman is bad enough. But being less worth then a woman, because of earning lesser money, is overkill. :(

In Japan they had the some problems, but because they had more international contacts and companies meeting each other, the custom has grown that these good educated women with good income marry, european and american men, that came to Japan because of their companies and business. They normally dont have parents in law that cry into their ears because of that "old 25 year old women, already half dead".... he wants to marry, XD



ArrantPariah
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25 Jan 2013, 8:33 am

1000Knives wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can there be left over women in a country where there's a state instituted one child birth preference and many rural families want a male? Seems like China will need to import women from other places at some point. The men will not be able to find brides. They will take any women they can get.


http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/pictures ... wives.html


Those are cute pictures.

There is also Russia, which seems to have an imbalance in the other direction.

http://www.picnews.info/picture-news/34 ... ward-china

Quote:
...Russian women marriage immigrants is also due to serious imbalance of the Russian male to female ratio. In Russia, male to female ratio is said to 1000:1147, the city up to 1000:1167. The number of men and women, is over 6700 million and 7700 million, respectively. About 10 million more men than women. Such reality spoiled part of the Russian men, they are lack of responsibility, alcoholic, and hot-tempered. A Russian girl say, "I'm also eager to find a partner for life in my own country. Unfortunately, in Russia, the men against women, they are arrogance, selfishness, disregard the dignity. Women married to foreigners in order to seek a better the future.

It seems the Russian men alcoholism has become a social problem and a threat to national interests. Russian women marrying immigrants is said to have been gradually institutionalized, many Russians have made their fortunes rely on the business of international matchmaking business.

In recent years, more and more Russian girl marry Chinese men. Parents plays a significant role in the Chinese men's cross-border marriage, if the Russian girl fell in love with men, it is best to let his parents to become their allies.

Chinese husband of course vary, but the vast majority will has overall responsibility for the family. Married life, the Russian wife will fully appreciate the advantage to the Chinese husband, if he is doing business, the time two together will be much less, but he will fully protect the life of his wife and children. If his salary is not high, his wife also have to work, but he will do the best effort to help. In short, the Chinese husband's faith is not a "myth" of the East, but a living reality....



In some of the pictures, the Chinese groom looks like he may be considerably older.



hyperlexian
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25 Jan 2013, 11:06 am

in India there is a similar problem with a shortage of women for wives because of selective abortions. this has led to women who are sold into marriage as a form of marriage slaves. i saw a special on al Jazeera about it in their modern slavery series called "Bridal Slaves". you can watch it here:

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/sla ... 68710.html

i wondered if the same problem was happening n China, and it turns out that yes... the women are being sold into slavery from North Korea. :cry:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/F ... to-Misery/

Quote:
NORTH-SOUTH KOREA BORDER -- Thousands of North Korean women fleeing their brutal homeland are ending up as sex slaves in China.

Lured by the promise of food, money and a better life, human smugglers are tricking hundreds of women each year into a life of misery.

"They try to escape from their captors but they get caught," Kang Su Jin told CBN News. "The women are beaten over and over again. Often they get locked up in a room for days."


there is more information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride-buying

oh, and as to the OP... i don't think there are that many leftover women in China, and the few that are may be happy to be single. :shrug:


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2013, 11:42 am

Wonder why the Chinese government insists on enforcing this idea that it is so terrible to be born Chinese? Very misguided in this particular area.



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25 Jan 2013, 8:20 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i wondered if the same problem was happening n China, and it turns out that yes... the women are being sold into slavery from North Korea. :cry:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/F ... to-Misery/

Quote:
NORTH-SOUTH KOREA BORDER -- Thousands of North Korean women fleeing their brutal homeland are ending up as sex slaves in China.

Lured by the promise of food, money and a better life, human smugglers are tricking hundreds of women each year into a life of misery.

"They try to escape from their captors but they get caught," Kang Su Jin told CBN News. "The women are beaten over and over again. Often they get locked up in a room for days."




While this report is very compelling, this is from Pat Robertson. I wouldn't necessarily take everything that he has to say at face value.



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25 Jan 2013, 8:37 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think there are that many leftover women in China, and the few that are may be happy to be single. :shrug:


Not if they expect to please their parents and grandparents.

http://travel.cnn.com/shanghai/play/sau ... ket-086672

Quote:
...My daughter studied in an Australian program for university,” says Chen Liande, holding out a photo for the small crowd to view. Someone compliments him. “She’s been to London, too. Now I’m helping her find a husband,” he adds.

... People’s Square is the beating heart of a modern city. And on weekend afternoons that heart flutters and palpitates as doting parents hope to marry off their kids. Next to the modern art museum in People's Square Park, crowds of them jostle and chatter, the bushes around filled with papers advertising height and weight, salary and education. “28. Good job. Local resident. Have house have car. Contact for a meeting,” says one.

...At the marriage market, parents, with or without their children’s consent, arrange meetings, dates and potential matches for their kids. Some children, often too busy working to devote time to meeting a soul mate, accept their parents' help. But its not easy even for a parent, and many also employ matchmakers.

Matchmakers broker meetings for numerous clients usually charging RMB 10-20 per pairing. “I’ve been a matchmaker for three years,” says Mr Zheng “There’s no large payment up front. If you get married, I expect a nice gift and maybe an invitation to attend the wedding. I already represent two American men. Interested?”

Even then, matching people long term, especially with the (in)famously strong-willed Shanghainese women, can be difficult. “I’ve been here a long time,” muses Mr Fu, a local matchmaker. “Girls in Shanghai are strong these days. Although they don’t have as much trouble finding a man, there are still lots of unmarried girls’ names on my lists.”

...“Involuntary bachelorhood so far is largely confined to the poor," explains Professor Wang. "For men, especially those in Shanghai, finding a wife is still possible and marriage is still one of the primary markers of success in life....

...The Shanghai marriage market takes place on Saturday and Sunday afternoons from about noon to three. It is found just inside gate 5 of People’s Square Park, 75 Nanjing Xi Lu., across from the Grand Theater. Take Metro line 1, 2 or 8 to People’s Square station, take Exit 9 to the ground level and turn left.



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25 Jan 2013, 8:44 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i wondered if the same problem was happening n China, and it turns out that yes... the women are being sold into slavery from North Korea. :cry:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/F ... to-Misery/

Quote:
NORTH-SOUTH KOREA BORDER -- Thousands of North Korean women fleeing their brutal homeland are ending up as sex slaves in China.

Lured by the promise of food, money and a better life, human smugglers are tricking hundreds of women each year into a life of misery.

"They try to escape from their captors but they get caught," Kang Su Jin told CBN News. "The women are beaten over and over again. Often they get locked up in a room for days."




While this report is very compelling, this is from Pat Robertson. I wouldn't necessarily take everything that he has to say at face value.

here is another source. you can google it yourself. :/ or even check out the wikipedia link which i noticed you skipped quoting.

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/traff ... china.html


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25 Jan 2013, 8:49 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think there are that many leftover women in China, and the few that are may be happy to be single. :shrug:


Not if they expect to please their parents and grandparents.

http://travel.cnn.com/shanghai/play/sau ... ket-086672

Quote:
...My daughter studied in an Australian program for university,” says Chen Liande, holding out a photo for the small crowd to view. Someone compliments him. “She’s been to London, too. Now I’m helping her find a husband,” he adds.

... People’s Square is the beating heart of a modern city. And on weekend afternoons that heart flutters and palpitates as doting parents hope to marry off their kids. Next to the modern art museum in People's Square Park, crowds of them jostle and chatter, the bushes around filled with papers advertising height and weight, salary and education. “28. Good job. Local resident. Have house have car. Contact for a meeting,” says one.

...At the marriage market, parents, with or without their children’s consent, arrange meetings, dates and potential matches for their kids. Some children, often too busy working to devote time to meeting a soul mate, accept their parents' help. But its not easy even for a parent, and many also employ matchmakers.

Matchmakers broker meetings for numerous clients usually charging RMB 10-20 per pairing. “I’ve been a matchmaker for three years,” says Mr Zheng “There’s no large payment up front. If you get married, I expect a nice gift and maybe an invitation to attend the wedding. I already represent two American men. Interested?”

Even then, matching people long term, especially with the (in)famously strong-willed Shanghainese women, can be difficult. “I’ve been here a long time,” muses Mr Fu, a local matchmaker. “Girls in Shanghai are strong these days. Although they don’t have as much trouble finding a man, there are still lots of unmarried girls’ names on my lists.”

...“Involuntary bachelorhood so far is largely confined to the poor," explains Professor Wang. "For men, especially those in Shanghai, finding a wife is still possible and marriage is still one of the primary markers of success in life....

...The Shanghai marriage market takes place on Saturday and Sunday afternoons from about noon to three. It is found just inside gate 5 of People’s Square Park, 75 Nanjing Xi Lu., across from the Grand Theater. Take Metro line 1, 2 or 8 to People’s Square station, take Exit 9 to the ground level and turn left.

it looks like they have it under control. even the first article you linked made it clear that there weren't actually any leftover women - it was just a product of the Chinese propaganda machine.


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ArrantPariah
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26 Jan 2013, 9:39 am

hyperlexian wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i wondered if the same problem was happening n China, and it turns out that yes... the women are being sold into slavery from North Korea. :cry:

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/F ... to-Misery/

Quote:
NORTH-SOUTH KOREA BORDER -- Thousands of North Korean women fleeing their brutal homeland are ending up as sex slaves in China.

Lured by the promise of food, money and a better life, human smugglers are tricking hundreds of women each year into a life of misery.

"They try to escape from their captors but they get caught," Kang Su Jin told CBN News. "The women are beaten over and over again. Often they get locked up in a room for days."




While this report is very compelling, this is from Pat Robertson. I wouldn't necessarily take everything that he has to say at face value.

here is another source. you can google it yourself. :/ or even check out the wikipedia link which i noticed you skipped quoting.

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/traff ... china.html


Okay. I'll bet that this was the first time that you, of all people, ever cited Pat Robertson. It surprised me.

Here is some more information on the Underground Railroad out of North Korea: http://vtncankor.wordpress.com/2011/05/ ... -evidence/

And, some more on the special perils faced by North Korean women in China: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03143.html

There are about 2 million ethnic Koreans who live in China: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_China

Korean-Chinese have their own Autonomous Prefecture, which borders both North Korea and Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanbian_Ko ... Prefecture

I wonder if this is where North Korean runaways try to run first?



ArrantPariah
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26 Jan 2013, 12:30 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
here is another source. you can google it yourself. :/ or even check out the wikipedia link which i noticed you skipped quoting.

http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/traff ... china.html


Now wait a tick.

Hyperlexian's Article wrote:
....Women represent about 70% of some 200,000 North Koreans who fled from North Korea into China in the past few years

...North Korean men could hardly compete with the Chinese for the few jobs available. In contrast, young North Korean women are sold as brides to Chinese farmers in northern border villages, while older ones take menial jobs working in restaurants or karaoke rooms. "We estimate about 80% of North Korean women who fled the North are sold as brides to Chinese men,"

...To be a North Korean woman is to be tough and brave, fighting all odds in an impoverished country that gives priority to nuclear and missile testing over feeding its population of 23 million, North Korean defectors say.

The mother usually overrules the father in North Korean homes, contrary to the traditional family picture of the obedient wife and mother coupled with the sole breadwinner father....

...In North Korea, a woman is usually the family's main breadwinner, while her father, husband and sons are mostly idle, kept away from state-run factories that have shut down or seldom operate.

...Many women who make it to South Korea find menial jobs cleaning buildings, or work as waitresses or housemaids. "Women tend to be faster than men in fitting into a new life in South Korea," Kim says. Meanwhile, North Korean men have a harder time finding jobs. Even if they do get employed, Kim says, many soon quit. "North Korean men find it hard to adapt to a different work culture in the South where men are treated differently depending on their performance and efforts."


It is the case that

Quote:
In some cases, traffickers are explicit about their intentions to sell these women as “brides,” and emphasize the better life these women would lead as a result of “marriage” to a Chinese “husband. Families also may opt to sell their daughters to a trafficker to make money.


And, the article goes on about how horrible it is to be married to a Chinaman.

In the Washington Post article that I cited

Quote:
Lee emphasizes that nearly all of the defectors she tracked down said the material circumstances of their lives "are much, much better" in China than they were in North Korea. If the women stayed with their husbands and bore children, they received abundant food, had secure shelter and were rarely bothered by Chinese police.


Hyperlexian's article seems to want to emphasize that women are heroines, and men are lazy, abusive scum.

It is fairly common in parts of Asia for women either to enter the executive-ejaculatory business, or to seek a foreign husband, generally with the idea of being able to support their parents and siblings financially. For North Koreans, it may be difficult to sent remittances to relatives back home.

I wonder what the ratio of women to men was among runaway slaves in the United States? Probably few of the slave women expected to find a husband to take them in. Some no doubt worked in the ejaculatory-administration industry, and were able to keep their profits for themselves. Slave owners typically expected their female slaves to increase their wealth by producing a new slave baby every year or two, and to be sexually available on call for the master and his buddies. Maybe our runaway female slaves just wanted a chance to rest.



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26 Jan 2013, 5:30 pm

Due to shortage of women in China a lot of the men end up having to marry women from neighboring countries like Vietnam Korea Laos Thailand Mongolia Burma Nepal Indonesia and even Japan.


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