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Ann2011
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22 Feb 2014, 8:52 pm

I've got a couple of theories . . . the most persuasive one, I think, is the argument coming from civil rights, which fights for the equality of people regardless of race. Then there is the argument that human life is of value regardless of it's stage of development.

My argument is that human life has no value. I've really tried, but I can't find anything particularly special about us. We have greater intelligence than other species on this planet, but we are still beasts. Just with better arguments.

I know we have compassion, but it is mitigated by self-interest. This is perfectly natural and not wrong. But sometimes it seems that humans think we are special somehow.

I just don't get this.


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22 Feb 2014, 9:25 pm

Value is subjective. There is no such thing as objective or inherent value. We each value certain people, which aggregates and encourages us into a moral position that humans have value. It doesn't actually mean anything -- it just makes people feel important.



thomas81
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22 Feb 2014, 9:26 pm

mankind has a unique spark which is absent from every other known living lifeform on Earth. It really is as simple as that I think.

Its that spark which endows us with a sense of duty to not only ourselves and families but to our fellow humans which again, has no comparison in the rest of the animal kingdom.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Feb 2014, 9:30 pm

I don't see myself as a beast at all and am 100 times removed from them as are most people I know.
As for valuing human life I believe in do unto others and I don't want them to decide the value of my life. I decide that myself and grant them the same privilege. They give their life value it isn't up to me to make a declaration based on my puny beliefs.



Ann2011
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22 Feb 2014, 9:43 pm

thomas81 wrote:
mankind has a unique spark which is absent from every other known living lifeform on Earth. It really is as simple as that I think.

Its that spark which endows us with a sense of duty to not only ourselves and families but to our fellow humans which again, has no comparison in the rest of the animal kingdom.

I'm just not so sure about this. I have been looking after a lot of dogs lately (working as a dog walker/pet sitter) and I see the same sense of duty in dogs.


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22 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

/\
Yep! There's something about dogs that I haven't seen in anything else other than humans. It could be because I've spent a lot of time with dogs but some of them them have that glow to them.


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Last edited by Raptor on 22 Feb 2014, 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ann2011
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22 Feb 2014, 9:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I don't see myself as a beast at all and am 100 times removed from them as are most people I know,

How so?


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Ann2011
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22 Feb 2014, 9:53 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\
Yep! There's something about dogs that I haven't seen in anything else other than humans. It could be because I've spent a lot of time with dogs but some of them them have that glow to them.

Dogs are so completely honest. I love that.


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thomas81
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22 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

ok, well perhaps theres more to it than that. Mankind has the ability to do unique things. We are the only known species able to make fire, the only known species able to read and write, to compose music or appreciate a piece of artwork on more than a visceral level. We're the only known species that has the capacity to send and recieve radio signals (the qualifier for intelligent life). We have accomplished things in science, engineering and mathematics that have no comparison among other animals.

Its all these things and more that give humans value.

Dogs are fairly bright, but you don't have to look very far to find other examples of equivalent intelligence. Pigs, elephants, chimps, orang-u-tangs, gorillas, whales, crows and dolphins are all offered as equivalent, if not far higher intelligences than dogs.


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22 Feb 2014, 10:36 pm

We are protecting our genes.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm

If religious answers are banned from consideration yes, any argument pretty much becomes circular if it were true that we were nothing more than deterministic matter of which our minds or 'I' experiences began to manifest out of nothing at birth and went back to nothing at death.



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22 Feb 2014, 11:00 pm

The only objective value we have as people is due to our being made in the image of a loving God, who pursues us without being overbearing, desiring that we turn to Him yet unwilling to force us (even though He could). People can deny it all they want, but if God doesn't exist, then we're nothing but a cosmic accident that will ultimately mean nothing to anyone.


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thomas81
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22 Feb 2014, 11:15 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
The only objective value we have as people is due to our being made in the image of a loving God, who pursues us without being overbearing, desiring that we turn to Him yet unwilling to force us (even though He could). People can deny it all they want, but if God doesn't exist, then we're nothing but a cosmic accident that will ultimately mean nothing to anyone.

its highly unlikely that humans are the only intelligent life in the universe, and even less likely that other intelligences will manifest in the same form as humans.

Its typical of human arrogance to believe that a God would make us the be all and end all of creation. I assure you we aren't.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Feb 2014, 11:16 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
The only objective value we have as people is due to our being made in the image of a loving God, who pursues us without being overbearing, desiring that we turn to Him yet unwilling to force us (even though He could). People can deny it all they want, but if God doesn't exist, then we're nothing but a cosmic accident that will ultimately mean nothing to anyone.

^^ This is a closer-to-my-heart paraphrasing of what I believe.

We're going through a cultural phase, a fad of sorts, where if we can't boil it down into faster microchips, put it in a car engine, put it in a pipe and smoke it, or make our members larger or make them stand at attention longer we consider it worthless. That's not a proof of no God, it's just a proof that as a culture we're a bit like moody teenagers having a turn and getting sucked into our own momentum.



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22 Feb 2014, 11:42 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I don't see myself as a beast at all and am 100 times removed from them as are most people I know,

How so?

Because beasts cannot get out their laptop, boot it up, find wp on the web and create a post. They can do nothing remotely like this. They exist in the wild, unable to manipulate their environment except in a very basic way, ie, a bird can build a nest.
Humans do things in ways no beasts can. Some beasts evolved superb athletic skills. Humans evolved in an entirely different direction compared to them if you really look at the differences. Most of what animals do is based on athletic skills and quick reflexes. For instance, monkeys swing from limb to limb in trees using their arms and hands to grasp. Their muscles and coordination are superior to ours in this respect. Other animals have developed similar skills, swimming or running quickly, for example. Humans have not accomplished this. Face it, they are not cheetahs no where close. Instead, they evolved to use their minds to solve problems and manipulate the environment. Instead of leg strength and sense of smell, they evolved the ability to experience both consciousness and a conscience.
Of course this makes them a thousand times more destructive than animals at times. Much more evil and the cost to the environment and themselves is much greater.



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23 Feb 2014, 5:38 am

Humans probably aren't anything special in any ultimate, universal sense, but we value each other because we are human and are hard-wired to do so. Javan rhinos probably think that Javan rhinos have a little extra something special that other species don't have.