I have a question for those refusing to vaccinate their kids

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Do such people have any pets and if the answer is yes, do they vaccinate them?

1- to play devils advocate I don't think its ever been proven that autism manifests in dogs or cats.

2- Are there seriously any anti vaxxers here?

It's a legitimate question to ask them...and I would like for them to answer, if possible. Do they just let their pets go unvaccinated like they do their kids or would they not even consider it?

Technically I don't think you asked them since I don't think any of them are here on WP. But maybe some poster will prove me wrong.

You wou get more answers if you posted this in the parent forum.

I could get more answers on a parent forum, maybe, but at the same time, it's a philosophical question as well...if you asked them that question and their reply was, "It would be cruel to not vaccinate a pet because they could get sick with a horrible disease or, they could possibly infect humans with diseases," suddenly their entire rationale against vaccinating their kids goes out the window. Suddenly, it's no longer a matter of the illness being eradicated due to all animals being vaccinated, or the fact that it is simply okay if the animal gets sick because it will simply develop antibodies if it does and that's the way nature intends things to unfold.

This question definitely belongs in the philosophical sub forum because, yes, it is a matter of ethics. Very much so. You can use the same logic for both kids and pets and if parents are vaccinating their pets and not their kids, really makes you question their moral fiber....and if they really care at all about their kids.

The reason I suggested the parent forum is not because I thought it was more of a parenting question than a philosophical question, it was because I think that a lot of the parents on the site don't venture into other forums too much.

However, I think that most of the parents on WP vaccinate their kids. I had both my children and my pets vaccinated.

That's why I didn't post it in the parents forum. I thought they wouldn't want a discussion about the ethics of vaccination since most of them, probably, are seeking answers to questions they have concerning their autistic children.

This topic does have an ethical component, so it is a philosophical dilemma.

Gotcha.
It is an interesting question. I know a couple of families in my area who did not vaccinate, and I know that one of them did get their dog a Rabies shot. I'm sure they might argue that Rabies is more prevalent than Polio, but their kid also got Pertussis.

See, that's the kind of thinking I just can't understand. They want to protect their dog but refuse to protect their child. Disease is disease. Why can't they see that having a disease like Measles, Polio or Whooping Cough would suck royally?
To me it seems like a form of abuse and for them to get their dog vaccinated seems to suggest, yes, they do thoroughly understand and they know full well what they are doing. It's negligence, plain and simple.

If these people refused to vaccinate their pets or immunize their children I would think, yeah, they really believe those vaccines are pure evil with all their heart. They might be a bit ignorant but at least they are doing this from a pure place in their hearts. They firmly believe it, in this case, for the worst.

If they're not too concerned about the impact of pet poop on the water quality, I'd say most of them do, in fact, vaccinate their pets.

For exactly the same reason that they don't vaccinate their kids: FEAR.

Rabies is a real thing to them, and they're afraid of it. Ditto FeLV, or watching the puppy s**t itself to death with parvo. '

Autism is a real thing to them, and they're afraid of it.

Measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, whooping cough, tetanus, viral pneumonia-- not so much. We don't see those things here in the developed world. Haven't seen them for generations. They're vague things in Grandma's stories, or a plot device in novels about hillbillies, a distant third to the themes of the overarching triumph of the human spirit.

Those things aren't REAL in a nice upper-middle-class suburb. They're Third World problems. Something Doctors Without Borders deals with.

Not like Oh My God It's Autism is real. That, you know, weird kid that makes them feel so, well, awkward is REAL. This is the First World, and that's a First World problem.

My husband likes to make snide comments about West Virginia being like a Third World country. Thank God I grew up in a Third World country, where we knew Third World problems were REAL (and First World problems were So We All Have Problems).

I note that the majority of the states with high non-vaxx rates are predominantly wealthy and liberal.

Hey Fitzi-- Did they feel any different after nursing the kid through the whooping cough?? Because I had a brief flirtation with the idea that, being as to how I had to always remember that I was an unperson, autism was a fate worse than diphtheria. Nursing my hubby through the whooping cough (pretty much the least worst of the things we vaccinate for) slapped that notion right out of my head.

It might have to do with what's acceptable in their social circles. People are less likely to tolerate pet neglect than they are kids so they are quick to judge someone who refuses to vaccinate a pet, and label it neglect. Then it becomes a matter of the bank account and their social circle judging them on how well they care for their pets as in, they both make a lot of money yet they refuse to spend a few dollars taking their pets to the vet. The repercussions of such carelessness might be felt far and wide while with kids, the push is against anything that might be unnatural or contaminated so if they refuse something out of fear of it being poisonous, it's not such a big deal, it is seen as protecting rather than neglect. The horror of enduring a dreadful disease suddenly gets pushed aside and yeah, I had chicken pox and it was HORRID! I hated those nasty, itchy blisters with a passion. They itched like dynomite and no one would let me scratch for fear of scarring. If you asked me to choose between immunizations and catching that godawful pox, knowing what I know now, I would gladly choose to be immunized and skip all that irritation and itching.
So I am all for immunizing. I did question what was happening for a short while, then I realized immunizations on one side of the scale, risks on the other. The benefits outweigh the risks by a land side! It is unreal how much immunizations help people. No one should ever demonize them.

Yes. The mom told me that, if she could go back in time, she would have vaccinated. However, I don't think he's been vaccinated for anything since. Her kid (who was in my son's class) was really sick for about three months, then still coughed for a couple more. Her kid also was in school with it before it was diagnosed properly, but no other kid in the class got it because they were all vaccinated. My kid is one of those kids with a compromised immune system and he did not get it, so the vaccine works.

I live in NYC and, here, Whooping Cough and Measles have made a comeback due to anti vaxxers. My kids pediatrician says that Diptheria is also resurfacing in parts of the country.

I think that many anti vaxxers don't think far enough past the fear to arrive at logic (my opinion). If they did, they might arrive at the conclusion that they are actually choosing to put their kids at risk for death and painful side effects over the unproven possibility of Autism. Or, maybe it's the death of a child that seems "not real" to them? Maybe if they had a closer reference to that, they would make a different choice.

One of the anti vaxxers I know still uses things like DEET bug spray, has her home exterminated, and uses all sorts of other pharmaceuticals, processed food, etc. So, it seems like it's not a "we are against all preservatives and chemicals" logic, but more of a Jenny McCarthy inspired fear specific to vaccines. I am speculating.

This wouldn't surprise me at all.

BUT........

Yes they may vax their pets while simultaneously refusing to vax their kids.

But...

They also SPAY their pets. And they DON"T spay their kids!

So you're making a false analogy!

It's neither an ethical or philosophical dilemma to me really. Matter of fact it's no dilemma.

One cat was rescued from some horrible fate as he was the runt of the litter and we 'acquired' him. We let him have feline HIV jab and had him castrated but no chip as yet. He rarely ventures far from the garden or the little wood next door and comes when I whistle him so unless we move he probably never will get chipped.
The other cat came from the asylum and she is all jabbed up, sterilized and chipped.

DD on the other hand had diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and polio but no MMR.

As to the why...
Can't remember tbh, I cross bridges as I get to them and trust my gut feeling at the time.
If it feels right I'll do it and if it don't I won't.
Rarely in the last 20 or so years has it cheated me after learning from my mistakes the 30 years before that
Autism wasn't even on my radar at the time. DD had bad eczema and measles being a live vaccine was what bothered me from what I read.
I was more bothered from a TCM viewpoint as they view measles and mumps in their own way (toxins from when the child was in the womb that eventually work their way to the surface hence the rash etc. ) and have effective treatments.
I had measles as a child. It got me off school for a week, nothing wrong with that. And I got told off for scratching. Well that was self-inflicted I suppose, getting the telling off
Pertussis at 12 on the other hand put me in hospital in isolation for 2 weeks and left me with a chronic bronchitis ever since hence DD did get that one.

Anyway, I'm not particularly anti-vax but definitely pro-gut feeling and that is an individual decision that is not open to reason from without.

You can make anything into an ethical dilemma really but that turns everyday living into a drag. I'm not one of those 'blame' types whom always seem to have a need to blame someone if something goes wrong. You make decisions and live with them. For better or worse...