Antigovernment extremist kills family, self

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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/portra ... ailsignout

Check the comments-Montana locals are VERY wary about the influx of antigovt survivalists into their area, likely as a result of the "American Redoubt" ideas of popular survivalist novelist James Rawles. One guy had an "AR" (likely a cheap Bushmaster AR15-based rifle of the kind used in the Sandy Hook massacre) pointed at him by a new arrival when the guy's dog wandered onto the new guy's recently bought land. The new guy said he would kill the dog if it happened again, and apparently he has a history of threats.

Anyway, in the case in the article, this guy became antigovt after a run in with the law in New Mexico 20 years ago, and became so controlling and abusive to his wife that she left him. He then met this other woman, and moved them to a very remote patch of land in the forest, with the nearest town a 45 minute drive away down a rutted dirt road. He apparently had an argument with his wife, and killed her and their three kids before setting his log cabin on fire and shooting himself.

Sounds awful, what is it that you like to discuss?

This person, wanted to be free from tyranny, so he subjected his wife and kids to tyranny and then took away their liberty.

Government can do terrible things, however some people are bad and filtering and processing information even though they believe they are thinking clearly. This is why ideologies like this attract paranoid people like this.

Montana is obviously sparsely populated. By definition they are government light, compared to other states.

Whether you agree, not everyone moving there for that reason will be paranoid.

Just like not everyone asocial is anti-social.

I wouldn't be surprised that the guy had PTSD from his experiences with LE, and finally snapped and took it out on the people closest to him. -- This is a sad thing, but only goes to underscore my belief that our country is deeply disfunctional.

Passing more controlling legislation, or perhaps more accuately, foregoing legislation and going directly to creating more gvt. agency policy and red tape will not help, and only exacerbate the current state of governental creepiness and further alienate people.

0_equals_true touched on it, the fact that many (not all, but many) paranoid antigovt people say they are against "govt tyranny" yet tend to subject their families to extreme control methods that cross the line into tyranny.

I have seen it on survivalist forums online, if somebody says something they don't like, not even expressing "liberal views" but confessing to being less than 100% self-reliant, they immediately go on the warpath and attack the offender until he is banned or forced to leave. I have seen forums where only the "in crowd" is allowed because of what they call "opsec" meaning the idea that if they reveal too much info that the govt will kill or imprison them. So anybody who is "other" that wanders in is immediately forced out. This creates an echo chamber effect where people reinforce each other's paranoia.

I can only imagine what these people are like offline, with their families. Some are totally isolating and controlling, their families are seldom allowed off remote property, and the kids are homeschooled to avoid "govt brainwashing". Ironically these kids are only taught the Bible and that the outside world is evil and corrupt and is to be avoided at all costs. The kids end up psychologically stunted or worse.

Montana is a big draw for people who want to be left alone. Nothing wrong with that. But then you have the really scary types who will shoot anybody who looks at them funny.

There is nothing libertarian about this. It is illiberal.

In the US "liberal" is a dirty word which means social democrat/socialist rather than what liberal actually means. Many of the people calling themselves libertarian, are either Conservative LINOS, or they don't want interference in their lives but if you scratch beneath the surface they support protectionism for themselves and regulation for others (but are somehow obvious of the hypocrisy).

There are loons of every political persuasion, what some crazed individual does isn't commentary on anything besides themselves.

Indeed! In my 33 years in politics, I have seen people who have one issue about which they care strongly to the exclusion of all other issues. They then join the political party that most defends that single issue and convince themselves to defend all the party's other issues regardless of their misunderstanding or lack of enthusiasm about issues other than their one and only. These are the red-meat eaters who vote in lockstep with what they are told without understanding a word of it.

Extremely liberal or extremely conservative voters seem to be attracted by the smallest, most ideologically severe parties available to them. It appears to me to be akin to religious cults where independent opinion is discouraged for the safety of group-think. Unfortunately, I see even the major political parties now playing along with this trend. It is sad, really. And, yes, it involves all political parties.

couldn't find the comment about the guy and his dog. also those comments are from facebook, so no way of knowing if they are from montana, but seems unlikely.

not sure what the type of model of gun used has to do with anything. ar 15s or aks aren't evil.

Hmmm, MSN apparently deleted the comment from the guy whose dog was threatened. In fact, looks like MSN mods have been deleting quite a lot of comments.

As for the gun, no AK/AR guns aren't evil, but it seems that some of these survivalist types like to swing such guns around to prove how badass they are (the person, not the gun). These guys think that simply HAVING a gun like that will save their butts if civilization collapses. In a real collapse, they would last about 10 minutes. Also, actual AR's apparently aren't sold to the public, instead the public gets inferior knockoffs like the Bushmaster that are mainly good for hunting and such, not a war.

Pointless anecdote is pointless.

Also, please learn about guns before offering opinions on them, it helps avoid ignorant statements.

Actually, AR's are actually sold to the public, and they can be built up fairly easily with drop in upper recievers, heavy barrels, etc. What is NOT sold to the general public are the M-16 series, the M-4's, and the fully automatic lowe recievers. --These of course can be manufactured with some machine tools, but anybody with a brain isn't going to do this without first having an FFA, because it's a felony, with mandatory Federal Prison time. --Because it's a Felony, the persons involved would forfeit thei right to own firearms, and also have a difficult time getting a job after they serve their sentence.

Another risky thing would be to have an AR pistol and a second AR with a collapsing stock due to the fact that there would be probable cause to seize both weapons and the owner could face federal charges due to the fact that installing the collapsing stock on the short barrelled AR would yeild at the very least a Semiauto CAR-15 which is also illegal to posess w/o an FFA, and the above mentioned federal prison time and associated tribulations would also again come into play.

So an African American family went inthewoods? The article says she was.

It also says everyone was killed with a .45 Cal. pistol.

The Family Annihilator Killer has been a rising trend, mostly in the urban East and South.

He afforded land and built an off grid cabin, his wife went to town several days a week, he went to eat out, the kids played organized sports. His wife went to plays, and was in one at the time.

Nothing about Bible Thumping control freak, and a Male Terrorist Assault Rifle filled Compound.

No one came out and said, typical white male behavior, with them automatic weapons that shoot as often as you pull the trigger. Guns that only the military should have, and police who open fire and kill nine bikers and wound eighteen. The Police would not have shot them if they were not standing where the police were shooting.

Now it seems a Black guy, with a pistol, who worked, was arrested once for driving his dozer on his land. The case was dismissed. It seems he was driving while Black, and a trespasser felt threatened.

These tragic deaths are more tragic when a black man is reported as a white supremacist militia neighbor of the Unibomber.

All these people who do not love and worship government, who have read the Constitution, and understand that The Chamber of Commerce elects a Mayor, who hires a Chief of Police, to do the bidding of The Chamber of Commerce, are not tin foil hat crazy, they are Americans, who uphold what we have fought to uphold for several hundred years.

Almost all of the bikers killed were Veterans, the old guys Viet Nam, the younger Iraq and Afghanistan. All of them had friends that did not make it back to enjoy our freedom to ride motorcycles and gather in groups. Two thirds of the dead had no police record. The others minor offenses. Fourteen police opened fire on a crowd, killing nine, wounding eighteen.

One of the police made a radio call just before the shooting, he said a shot was fired behind the restaurant, then another, which he identified as being an AR-15, then the police in front opened fire on the crowd. Only the police had AR-15s.

It was a regular meeting of a group that considered laws that affected motorcycles, it had been going on for thirty years, there was never any trouble.

Well, he sure showed the government. They'll never meddle in HIS life again!

(thread locked at OP's request).