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Tollorin
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02 Mar 2016, 9:06 pm

Looking on the fourteens criteria put by Umberto Uco for fascism, Trump is clearly a fascist.

http://lithub.com/umberto-eco-on-donald-trump-14-ways-of-looking-at-a-fascist/



NoahYates
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03 Mar 2016, 1:30 pm

Its honestly scary that it will come down to a race against him. However, I absolutely cannot believe that Trump could possibly be elected president. If he gets the nomination for the republican party, which it appears he will, then it wont matter whether he is against Sanders or Clinton... it will be the biggest landslide in US history. If you thought Obama's message for hope and change was powerful, imagine the rally to stop Hitler 2.0 from rising to power. The fact of the matter is many traditional conservatives will either abstain from voting at all, or vote for the democrat or an independent.


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03 Mar 2016, 1:45 pm

I could see Trump beating Hillary if it was framed as anti-establishment vs the very embodiment of the establishment. And his campaign team outperformed Hillary's. If it's Sanders though Trump loses his, no pun intended, trump card. Sanders will crush Trump. I still have Hillary as favourite, but how many times has Trump surprised? Remember his run was thought of as no threat whatsoever and a complete joke right at the start. The opposition have been unbelievably stupid and incompetent in their approach to Trump.



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03 Mar 2016, 2:08 pm

I just feel like the people trump appeals to are a vocal minority.... and what has happened is essentially a coup of the GOP by radical tea-partiers and small-minded, uneducated, easily-persuaded people. All of the "intelligent" conservatives I know absolutely hate Trump and would never vote for him.


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


Last edited by NoahYates on 03 Mar 2016, 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Mar 2016, 2:12 pm

Also... I do agree that Hillary needs to step up her game with appealing to the younger, more idealistic generation... and I cant think of any better way to do that and to ensure a landslide than to pick Sanders as her running mate. I think it would be a powerful combo. Although I do recognize that she would want someone she could manipulate more and would fall in line, I think it is particularly important to ensure a democratic victory in this election.


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03 Mar 2016, 2:13 pm

NoahYates wrote:
I just feel like the people trump appeals to are a vocal minority.... and what has happened is essentially a coup of the GOP by radical tea-partiers and uneducated, easily-persuaded people. All of the "intelligent" conservatives I know absolutely hate Trump and would never vote for him.
So far, the most famous person that Mr. Trump seems to appeal to is David Duke (white supremacist and ex-KKK grand dragon). That alone quenches all of my interest in voting for Mr. Trump.



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03 Mar 2016, 2:18 pm

NoahYates wrote:
I just feel like the people trump appeals to are a vocal minority.... and what has happened is essentially a coup of the GOP by radical tea-partiers and uneducated, easily-persuaded people. All of the "intelligent" conservatives I know absolutely hate Trump and would never vote for him.


I think you're right but that vocal minority can have a tremendous effect on our politics, especially with the amount of voter apathy in this country. Keep in mind that a lot of democrats wanted Reagan to win the Republican primary because they thought he was too crazy to ever get elected.

Clinton will probably pick someone younger than her for VP. Maybe one of the Castro brothers. (The American ones, not the Cuban ones)



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03 Mar 2016, 2:21 pm

I also think Trump has a lot of support from anarchists... which is another minority group. I dont know if anyone has heard of two theories that interest me. One theory being that Trump's seemingly unbelievable success and popularity, despite his outrageous positions and behavior is that it is being driven in part by the influence of trolls... 4chan trolls. Hahahaha!! !??? And/or... Clinton supporters..... This also leads to the second theory that entertains me... When Trumps campaign had not even been announced yet, but he was flirting with the idea, I heard that Bill Clinton called Trump and thee two spoke for several hours. Not one week later Trump announced his campaign... do you see where i am going with this?!


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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03 Mar 2016, 2:25 pm

NoahYates wrote:
I also think Trump has a lot of support from anarchists... which is another minority group. I dont know if anyone has heard of two theories that interest me. One theory being that Trump's seemingly unbelievable success and popularity, despite his outrageous positions and behavior is that it is being driven in part by the influence of trolls... 4chan trolls. Hahahaha!! !??? And/or... Clinton supporters..... This also leads to the second theory that entertains me... When Trumps campaign had not even been announced yet, but he was flirting with the idea, I heard that Bill Clinton called Trump and thee two spoke for several hours. Not one week later Trump announced his campaign... do you see where i am going with this?!


Trump has said very nice things about the Clintons in the past. I've heard that theory floated but I'm skeptical. If I had a guess Trump ran because he was bored and wanted to inflate his ego and his bank account. I don't think he even believed he would make it this far.



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03 Mar 2016, 2:38 pm

I've heard that theory, too.

I wouldn't call Trump a fascist just yet. Unless he starts creating a paramilitary force such as the Brown Shirts were under the Nazis. Then....I would start calling him a fascist.

For now, he's just a misinformed Populist.

At best, I see a William Jennings Bryan-type result for him in the general election. The Republicans are split, badly split. Like Roosevelt and Taft were.



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03 Mar 2016, 2:51 pm

Although Bernie is my favorite, I really, reeally like the idea of a Clinton Sanders ticket. You get Hillary, Bernie, and Bill.


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03 Mar 2016, 2:57 pm

I would rather have Bill as the running-mate than Sanders.

I like Sanders and all--but he's pretty unelectable under the American political climate these days.

Sanders would do better in countries which have a Social-Democratic orientation.

Or perhaps even in Canada.

Here....no way.



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03 Mar 2016, 3:01 pm

I wouldn't call Trump a fascist. Not in any way. A populist right-winger perhaps, not someone who is a libertarian definitely, but I wouldn't call him a fascist or a Nazi.

(Although he made himself look a pillock over the David Duke thing.)



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03 Mar 2016, 3:08 pm

I think Hillary (or Sanders) would do better with a more mainstream type of Democrat--who has some, but not many, conservative views.

I don't think Hillary would do as well with somebody seen as more liberal than her.



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03 Mar 2016, 3:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I've heard that theory, too.

I wouldn't call Trump a fascist just yet. Unless he starts creating a paramilitary force such as the Brown Shirts were under the Nazis. Then....I would start calling him a fascist.

For now, he's just a misinformed Populist.

At best, I see a William Jennings Bryan-type result for him in the general election. The Republicans are split, badly split. Like Roosevelt and Taft were.


Although violence is usually associated with fascism it isn't a necessity to be a fascist. Besides that the violence is usually carried out by supporters without direct condoning from the top. Fascism is about a merger of state and corporate interests and I think Trump is a good example of that.



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03 Mar 2016, 3:17 pm


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts