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chris1989
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01 Jan 2021, 6:18 pm

I've said in one of my previous threads in terms of the political divide I'm probably somewhere in between the left and the right. I seem to feel if was a world leader I'd be quite problematic as it would seem that I would be on nobody's side. I have often read history and thought to myself If I'd been in charge I would have done this and wouldn't have done that. For example I am not an american but if I had been the president I wouldn't have sent arms to regimes that were killing their own people or groups that were committing atrocities such as what happened in Latin and South America and wouldn't have gone into Vietnam. Having said that, it does sound like I'd have quite strained or problematic relations with other countries if I don't side with someone just because their human rights record is abhorrent or something. I do remember someone saying if you see something terrible happening in the world and you want it to stop and not willing to send your own troops then you'll need allies and sometimes those allies won't be perfect people and nearly every country on this planet has a terrible human rights record.



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01 Jan 2021, 6:35 pm

Dunno.

Depends what you’d do live in the moment, not what you would have done in 2020 hindsight.


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VegetableMan
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01 Jan 2021, 7:06 pm

There are no good leaders.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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01 Jan 2021, 7:10 pm

To some extent one's appearance of being a good or a bad leader depends on the quality of the followers who apply action to the leader's desires.


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01 Jan 2021, 7:15 pm

The best leaders are those with no followers.


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goldfish21
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01 Jan 2021, 7:22 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
There are no good leaders.


:roll:


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shlaifu
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01 Jan 2021, 7:59 pm

hmm. yeah. We'd all like tothink of ourselves as not selling arms to despots, but that way of thinking is maybe the reason why we don't get anywhere close to becoming world leaders.

I've been listening to talks by geostrategists for a while - it's quite fascinating, how morals play no role in their thinking- it's all about, well, strategy-
It makes me think of the Melian Dialogue. During the Peloponnesian war, the Athenians came to the (strategically very important) Island of Melos. The Melians didn't not want to join the Athenians, nor give up their Island. The Athenians threatened to kill all the men and sell women and children into slavery, and establish a base on the Island to fight the Spartans.
The Melians said there's no reason, they were not interested in taking part in this, they'd stay neutral, and argued on moral grounds that killing them off was wrong. The Athenians however needed the island, so they did what they had threatened to do.
A famous quote from the dialogue is from the Melian negotiator: "the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must"

It's not that the US are fond of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But they need the oil, they need the strategic partner, they don't need anymore chaos in that part of the American Empire- so they support the Saudis as long as the Saudis are of use to them.
The same thing with China - everyone knows whatever there's going on in Xinjiang is a violation of human rights. But China is manufacturing EVERYTHING and buys a lot- no one dates losing them as trade partner, so they can do what they want, domestically.


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01 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
There are no good leaders.
:roll:
Indeed, Goldie.  There most certainly ARE good leaders.  The problem arises from a mismatch between a person's leadership skills and the culture and environment in need of an effective leader.

For instance, appointing a sadistic prison warden to the office of public school principal might not be the wisest choice; appointing a compassionate children's day-care manager as Secretary of Defense might not be very smart, either; and certainly electing a narcissistic boardroom tyrant to the office of President is ... well ... we're still feeling the effects of THAT trumpster fire, are we not?

And while it has been pointed out that a leader cannot lead if the leader has no followers, it takes more than followers to make an effective leader.  A leader must be approachable, honest, humble, selfless, and trustworthy.  An effective leader must be able and willing to delegate authority while retaining all the responsibility for any subsequent actions taken by the people he or she appointed.  Effective leadership qualities also include the following practices:

• Always treating people with dignity and respect, whether supporter or opposition.

• Communicating horizontally and vertically, openly, transparently, and continually.

• Continuing to educate onself in every aspect of your profession, your organization, and your mission.

• Earning and building the trust of your supporters, opponents, other leaders, and the public.

• Having fun by embracing your responsibilities with enthusiasm and optimism.

• Maintaining balance by devoting quality time to your family and community.

• Mentoring, evaluating, and recognizing your team members honestly and fairly.

• Setting the highest moral and ethical standards and holding yourself and everyone in your organization accountable for maintaining them.

Good leaders are made by diligently practicing each of these actions until they turn into habits your supporters and opposition will come to expect.


:D


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GGPViper
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01 Jan 2021, 9:33 pm

The qualities required to *rise* to a position of leadership are often very different from - and sometimes the exact opposite of - the qualities required to *sustain* the position of leadership.

The former requires an entrepreneurial mindset with a focus on change, initiative and boldness, while the latter requires a bureaucratic mindset with a focus on stability, patience and prudence.

This is likely the case regardless of the moral character of the leader (if any). An incompetent malevolent dictator is as likely (if not more so) to be deposed as an incompetent benevolent dictator.



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01 Jan 2021, 9:45 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
The best leaders are those with no followers.

“ Follow me the wise man said.
But he walked behind.”
Leonard Cohen


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CockneyRebel
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02 Jan 2021, 10:42 am

That depends on what your stance on life issues are.


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