Introduction to philosophy
I'm a mathematics student who attends meetings of my college's philosophical society. It's a small group of people and most of them seem to appreciate my input as an outsider and an honest fool. Most of what they discuss is very accessible, but there is a general canon of philosophers they frequently discuss who I am only familiar with on a Wikipedia/introduction sort of level (most commonly Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Hume, Kant, Hegel and Wittgenstein). In my college, courses are very specialised; philosophy students take entirely philosophy courses, and mathematics students take entirely mathematics courses.
By undergraduate standards, I'm pretty strong with logic. I have a decent intuition for deductive reasoning having read through many (and written some) mathematical and logical proofs. I know first-order logic up to its completeness theorem, Gödel, Turing+Church, and set theory up to the independence theorems in ZF for AC and CH. I hope to take a logic-related area to graduate level. However, I also want to at least have a rudimentary understanding of philosophy, partly so I can settle in these philosophical circles and partly to develop more of an intuition for my own interests.
I recently spoke to a philosophy lecturer who is more interested in continental philosophy, particularly Gadamer. Obviously our convictions and interests strongly differed but we were still able to relate on a very basic level, and he recommended I read Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations. I took a lend of that and the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus out and have started to read the latter; I'm aware it's much different, but Wittgenstein mentions in his preface to Philosophical Investigations that he would prefer to have his "investigations" read as a contrast to the Tractatus. A brief skim reveals that Wittgenstein does not make many references to other philosophers, and I have a particular interest in logic and language, so it doesn't appear to have been a misguided choice.
What other philosophical texts, especially but not limited to the "canon" I mentioned, should I read? I have been informed that I should also read books on some of these philosophers, and plan to do so with Wittgenstein to see how my interpretation of say the Tractatus differs from that of others - any recommendations along those lines would be welcomed, as well.
Well, it depends on what you want to specialize in.
I am not as focused upon philosophy of logic or language though, so I could at best just look up names for you and tell you that these folks have important works, but I would not have first-hand experience.
Your school likely has a very big interest in abstraction, and some continental influence if that is the list though. Most of those philosophers are important for logic or epistemology, and Hegel is outright rejected by analytic philosophy. Then again, the professor interested in Gadamer is likely a dead give away for something anyway.
If I were to give names, I would give existentialists, ethicists, philosophers of science, philosophers of religion, political philosophers, and stuff like that. That isn't what your school seems that powerfully engaged in I do not think.
I'm not terribly interested in ethics, admittedly. My only non-mathematics course was on ethics, because that was the only philosophy course I took, and while I do not regret the experience I never felt like what I said really had any grounding. Whereas I feel like I have more of an intuitive grasp when discussing logic and applications in mathematics, science and language.
Naïvely speaking I'm somewhat interested in philosophers who take a radically different view to my own present convictions, if only because as Mill put it "he who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that".
I don't think that's naive at all- I find it a very mature stance and wish more people would take it. After all, no one ever died from listening to those they disagree with
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I don't think that's naive at all- I find it a very mature stance and wish more people would take it. After all, no one ever died from listening to those they disagree with
QFT.
Naïvely speaking I'm somewhat interested in philosophers who take a radically different view to my own present convictions, if only because as Mill put it "he who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that".
Yeah, I am not as focused into logic, as it gets more technical than I enjoy.
Philosophy of science though? If you want some people to perhaps challenge your view on that, then I would recommend the following books:
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn
Against Method by Paul Feyerabend
Science in a Free Society by Paul Feyerabend
All of these books focus a lot upon the history of science, and so might not be the kind of books you'd be looking for given that you seek applications of logic, but they do take a very different view of the philosophy of science than most people take, as to some extent, they deny the importance of logic on the philosophy of science.
I haven't read this book, but Proofs and Refutations by Imre Lakatos actually relates more to the philosophy of mathematics, and it is not as historical I don't think, as it is based upon a Socratic dialogue structure to argue for it's view of the workings of math.
If you want people who will challenge your view on reality though, here are the groups I would suggest:
The Pragmatists, an American school of thought that usually denies that logic absolutely works to say that specific things seem true, strong empiricists
The Postmoderns, a branch of continental philosophy that is based upon it's drive to criticize the cultural foundations of human thought
I dunno, if I can think of another group you might like, or if I find out something that really can help, I'll tell you.
I kind of liked reading about Rawls and huh.....his arch nemesis.... gah, can't remember the name.... Rawls was proning social justice, and his nemesis was telling that the state shouldn't force you to do what you don't want to do (like, if you don't want to risk your life to save someone, it's completly legitimate, if you don't want to wear a helmet when you're riding a bike, completly legitimate, and hey, you can sell your body too if you want! Completly legitimate here too.). Anyways, he was kinda fun.
I don't think that's naive at all- I find it a very mature stance and wish more people would take it. After all, no one ever died from listening to those they disagree with
Hard to say, what is the purpose to listening to people who are wrong? Sometimes the other side is rather nonsensical, have you ever debated a flat-earther?
Some people have wished they were dead from having to listen to the other side.
I don't think that's naive at all- I find it a very mature stance and wish more people would take it. After all, no one ever died from listening to those they disagree with
I mention that I speak naïvely because I haven't ruled out getting tired of the other side after finding them to be far from persuasive. I can't speculate either way at the moment because I haven't properly read them yet, which is where the "naïve" part comes from. Of course I hope for the sake of my own time that I can learn something from reading on both sides.
You mean Nozick. Rawls wrote "A Theory of Justice" one of the most influential books in political philosophy, and Nozick wrote "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" another very influential book in political philosophy.
Both are good books to read for the subject, the view that Rawls puts forward is a basis for left-wing politics, but the view that Nozick puts forward is a defense of minarchism.
By undergraduate standards, I'm pretty strong with logic. I have a decent intuition for deductive reasoning having read through many (and written some) mathematical and logical proofs. I know first-order logic up to its completeness theorem, Gödel, Turing+Church, and set theory up to the independence theorems in ZF for AC and CH. I hope to take a logic-related area to graduate level. However, I also want to at least have a rudimentary understanding of philosophy, partly so I can settle in these philosophical circles and partly to develop more of an intuition for my own interests.
I recently spoke to a philosophy lecturer who is more interested in continental philosophy, particularly Gadamer. Obviously our convictions and interests strongly differed but we were still able to relate on a very basic level, and he recommended I read Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations. I took a lend of that and the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus out and have started to read the latter; I'm aware it's much different, but Wittgenstein mentions in his preface to Philosophical Investigations that he would prefer to have his "investigations" read as a contrast to the Tractatus. A brief skim reveals that Wittgenstein does not make many references to other philosophers, and I have a particular interest in logic and language, so it doesn't appear to have been a misguided choice.
What other philosophical texts, especially but not limited to the "canon" I mentioned, should I read? I have been informed that I should also read books on some of these philosophers, and plan to do so with Wittgenstein to see how my interpretation of say the Tractatus differs from that of others - any recommendations along those lines would be welcomed, as well.
Read the works of Karl Popper and Mario Bunge.
And remember this -- Metaphysics is verbal ka ka. Ethics and aesthetics are opinion. The only philosophy worth pursuing is epistemology which deals with what we know and how we know it.
ruveyn
And remember this -- Metaphysics is verbal ka ka. Ethics and aesthetics are opinion. The only philosophy worth pursuing is epistemology which deals with what we know and how we know it.
ruveyn
To Hector:
Metaphysics has been resurrected since the logical positivists have died off, and metaphysics is important for the philosophy of mathematics(how is math meaningful and how does it exist). Thus it is important to think about as there is a relationship between epistemology and ontology, and even one of the mentioned figures, Mario Bunge, devotes some time to metaphysics.
Actually, logic would be a field that could be considered worth pursuing by what seems to be your implicit standards. In any case, what is ignored is that if ethics is opinion, then value-theory is opinion, which means that any branch of philosophy is worth pursuing if one thinks it is. In any case, a good familiarity with all of the branches of philosophy is nice, because metaphysics pops up a lot of places, and ethics is very good for talking about human behavior and perhaps persuading people to your side as any debate or conversation can be argued to carry ethical assumptions, I don't know that aesthetics is really popular in many places though, but your school might put more appreciation into it as I think that Gadamer's major work starts off by talking about literature and some aesthetics.
In any case, if you are going to read Karl Popper, I would advise that you read the authors I suggested, as they attempt to rebut Karl Popper's ideas on the importance of falsificationism in relation to science, so seeing both sides is something I know you said you liked.
Actually, logic would be a field that could be considered worth pursuing by what seems to be your implicit standards. In any case, what is ignored is that if ethics is opinion, then value-theory is opinion, which means that any branch of philosophy is worth pursuing if one thinks it is.
Collecting baseball cards is worth pursuing if one thinks it is. So what else is new?
Mathematical logic is a branch of mathematics and has many important consequences and applications. For example Godel's Incompleteness Theorems brought Hilbert's program to formalize all of mathematics to a screeching halt.
Metaphysics has been a burden and a bane to effective thinking since the time of Aristotle. Modern science has purged most of metaphysics which is one of the reasons why it is so effective and useful.
Karl Freidrich Gauss, one of the greatest mathematicians, said of the metaphysicians:;
Where they are right, they are not original and where they are original they are not right.
ruveyn
ruveyn
I just mean that I question your focus. This isn't to say that Mario Bunge and Karl Popper are terrible philosophers, Karl Popper is one of the most important philosophers of science to have existed, and I have certainly heard of Mario Bunge. I just mean that I would place emphasis on a better rounded background due to overlaps in philosophy, and the utility of a broader perspective. I mean, when it comes down to it, even epistemology is a questionable subject for "Grand Knowledge" given the issues that epistemology has in combating skepticism, and the relativistic theories such as some of the modern variants of Pragmatism and Plantinga's Reformed Epistemology. Because of these kinds of issues, I would take a somewhat cynical approach to epistemology.
Metaphysics has been a burden and a bane to effective thinking since the time of Aristotle. Modern science has purged most of metaphysics which is one of the reasons why it is so effective and useful.
Karl Freidrich Gauss, one of the greatest mathematicians, said of the metaphysicians:;
Where they are right, they are not original and where they are original they are not right.
ruveyn
You edited.
Mathematical logic is a branch of mathematics, and it has many importance. It is also related to philosophy of mathematics and philosophy of logic, both of which are not straight up epistemology.
Metaphysics is also inescapable, and most modern philosophers are not as anti-metaphysical as you are, once again, I would almost think you are itching to have a logical-positivist revival. In most theories you end up having to postulate a metaphysics to work within, and the kinds of entities you can and cannot appeal to. Modern science is effective because it is limited to a rather stable conceptual framework, something that only hard science could effectively do. Philosophy, however, given that it questions *everything* cannot just say "screw metaphysics", in fact, even subjects outside of metaphysics still have metaphysical problems about the nature of knowledge and things like that. For instance, debates over the nature of mathematics, whether it is a fiction or a Platonic ideal, are metaphysical, but they also have some implications for the philosophy of mathematics, and for epistemology in general. If math is Platonic, or something similar, then rationalism is a good epistemology, however, if mathematical ideas are fictionalist or based upon a fallible intuition then a more pragmatic epistemology is necessary. Not only that, but modal logics often make metaphysical claims as well, as modal realism is often criticized for it's massively expanded ontology, that suggests that this reality isn't the only one to exist, it just happens to be the one that we are in.
Yes.... appealing to a mathematician is absolutely wonderful. I am *so* persuaded. ruveyn, you haven't escaped metaphysics, you have just made a metaphysical claim and then stopped caring. That doesn't seem like good philosophy, but rather just good dogmatism.
