"Outposts of tyranny"

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outposts_of_tyranny

The criteria of an outpost of tyranny:
- oppressive
- showing contempt for democracy and human rights
- a place where a person can't go into the town square and express their views without fear of arrest, imprisonment or physical harm.

Condoleeza Rice's examples:
- Iran
- North Korea
- Belarus
- Zimbabwe
- Burma
- Cuba

My question: Why the hell wasn't China mentioned?!

What countries would you add to the list?

(El Salvador don't sit right with me since I read about how they treat autistics, but I'm not sure if the country as a whole would qualify as a OoT. I don't know anything about El Salvador.)

Because even the Bush administration wasn't dumb enough to piss off the Chinese. They hold a lot of our debt, our two economies are heavily dependent on each other, and China has the world's biggest army. They are also a nuclear power. We can't risk alienating them- they are probably a greater threat than the Soviets were, because they have the means to seriously damage our economy.

Yes, it was a rhetorical question and that was the answer in my mind...nobody ever dares piss off the Chinese. I wish everyone would quit buying their crappy products until they quit terrorising the rest of the world.

Saudi Arabia.

Once again, Rice would never haved bad mouthed them because we rely so heavily on their oil.

yeah, the hypocrisy of our leaders again.

you're free to oppress and kill your own people, as long as your kids make cheap trainers for us all!

I would also add Sudan to the list. There's an evil Islamic fundamentalist state if ever there was one. Does anyone remember the case of that British teacher who nearly got executed there for letting the kids in her class name a teddy bear Muhammed?

Also Afghanistan, because, well, that goes without saying really. Soviets, then the Taliban. That place hasn't been peaceful in a long time...

There's a lot more I would add, those are just off the top of my head.

I would add America to the list.

I wouldn’t put this label on Afghanistan.

I would put Afghanistan in the same category as Somalia. They are both failed states with extremely weak federal governments. Numerous small factions who are often fighting each other for larger influence and control effectively rule them both.

Regardless, I still wouldn’t want to go to either one and speak out against any of the factions.

Britain?

The U.S. is place where one can express contempt for democracy and human rights. I do it all the time. I have contempt for democracy which I characterize as mob rule and the rule of the incompetent by the immoral. I express contempt for the so called right of the poor to compel those better off than they are to support them.

See, I just did it and no one is going to arrest me.

God (or some other Being), bless the United States of America.

ruveyn

It's getting a lot worse though I keep hearing - same as the UK - bye bye liberty, hello big brother and false security.

America is in less danger of being pwned by the incompetent as long as people retain their right to bear arms imho

"the people shouldn't live in fear of the government, the government should be in fear of the people' something like that..Thomas Jefferson maybe..? I get my presidential quotes mixed up at this point in the evening.

How about -V for Vendetta-. A wonderful motion picture. I loved watching Parliament get blown to smithereens. In the movie, Guy Fawkes wins for a change. It was marvelous.

Remember, remember the 5-th of November.

God (or some other being) bless you, Guy Fawkes

ruven

I know the quote was used in V for Vendetta, but it may have originated elsewere.

It's perfectly true of course, if the government doesn't fear the people it rules (even if just a respectful fear) tyranny will always result. Personally I don't think the U.S. is close to that threshold at the moment, but we have been moving in that direction for awhile now (at least since 9/11). The fact is if we lose our liberty, it won't be overnight, it will be one liberty at a time and it will be the voters, not some shadowy organization or power-hungry politicians, that are the root cause. Only if the process is considerably sped up could a revolution break out.

I honestly think that the trend of the govenrment cutting off our liberties is about to start reversing itself. First and foremost, we're finally rid of Bush, who frankly speaking, enacted rules like the patriot act to scare us into thinking there was still a credible terrorist threat. There is not. 9/11 was really the pearl harbor of terrorism, it's simply not going to happen a second time, not to us, and hopefully not to the rest of the world.
Second, now that we have a democratic president and congress, we can finally get rid of the crap that W. has shoveled through during his unfortunate presidency. Already we're seeing a lot of that dissapearing. Guantanamo bay is scheduled to be closed down, we have a solid timetable for pulling out of iraq, and there's talk of pulling out of afganistan as well. Hopefully, inside of 2 years most of the damage bush has done will be mostly repaired.

There have been other attacks since then, such as the 7/7 attacks in London.


Such partisanship is foolishness. Which party currently has the upper hand doesn't make too much difference. I am quite pleased that Obama is planning to shut down Guantanamo, but you need to be more realistic: the timetable for leaving Iraq was established before Obama took office, and Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan, not pulling out. Also, to believe that Obama will fix all our problems in the next two years is simply delusional. Whether or not he turns out to be better than Bush (I believe he will) we're in quite a mess and there's only so much a President can actually do.

You have that right. Our economy has been hollowed out over the past 40 to 50 years and the only things that have saved us have been some technological advances during that period.

As to Prince Obama's war plans, just as FDR needed a war to bring the economy around back around 1940, the Prince needs his war. It looks like Afghanistan is it.

When the economy is going soft, have a war.

ruveyn