Why the world will never run out of energy

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0_equals_true
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31 Oct 2009, 7:54 pm

Energy is all around us, the problem is harnessing it. Easier said than done.



Eggman
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31 Oct 2009, 10:02 pm

5 billion years is not forever, Be technically correct, the best kind of correct


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pakled
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01 Nov 2009, 1:28 am

All systems are closed systems; the only variable is scale - 1st law of Ecology...


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01 Nov 2009, 6:29 am

Forever for a species is about 5,000,000 years, and guess who is that old?

It is normal for a species to become very common, the largest numbers, just before they vanish.

A hundred years from now it will not matter. 2050 is the time to watch, when overpopulation hits declining resources. Energy could help, or perhaps prolong, but a shortage of top soil, fresh water, will be more pressing issues.

A growing population has a birth rate that exceeds death rate. Living longer magnifys that.

When a peak population is reached, the death rate increases, but the population still grows. This leads to an increasing death rate, shorter lives, and still a populaton increase. The rate of resource decline increases, and a 10% shortage of water and food can grow to a 50% death rate, and after a few years, that become serious.

This mathematical model plays out from 2040 to 2050.

The correct answer is the one that is closest to you.

The Dinosaurs did not die out, they became rats and chickens, after the crash comes new species developed from the survivors.

The same principal works in taxation. A few percent works in a growing economy, which drives the economy higher by building roads, bridges, ports, but as it nears total use, the tax rate has to go up because growth stops. As decline sets in from decline, plus higher taxes, taxes have to rise.

At the same 50% economic death, taxes, the economy fails. Every economy that has taxed more than a third has quickly fallen, and we are past that point. While it seems to take a long time to get there, the tipping point is instant, and not reversable.

At the end those in power try to become rich. Oil goes to $150, ten times what it was when Bush took office, which stalls out other parts of the economy which leads to Wall Street bailouts, governments making banks rich, which causes business to fail, leaving those assets worth a lot less, less than their debt, and it all fails.

Without money government has no power to do anything. We have no food reserves, so an economic collapse causes crops to not get planted, harvested, or sent to market, for there is not a market.

The world will never run out of energy, just human intelligence.



ruveyn
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01 Nov 2009, 7:46 am

pakled wrote:
All systems are closed systems; the only variable is scale - 1st law of Ecology...


Nonsense! The earth is thermodynamically open. Energy enters the Earth at every instant. The sum total of energy on Earth is NOT constant.

There is no Law of Ecology that has any physical basis. Such a notion is ecological quasi religious crapdoodle put forth by the Giaia huggers.

ruveyn



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01 Nov 2009, 10:27 am

Note- once again, this is the 'political' law...;) I know there's infinite energy, but everywhere I've seen this thinking in action, it's been pushed to indicate that 'whatever it is, we're running out of it'...;)


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01 Nov 2009, 4:02 pm

Inventor wrote:
Forever for a species is about 5,000,000 years, and guess who is that old?

It is normal for a species to become very common, the largest numbers, just before they vanish.

A hundred years from now it will not matter. 2050 is the time to watch, when overpopulation hits declining resources. Energy could help, or perhaps prolong, but a shortage of top soil, fresh water, will be more pressing issues.

A growing population has a birth rate that exceeds death rate. Living longer magnifys that.

When a peak population is reached, the death rate increases, but the population still grows. This leads to an increasing death rate, shorter lives, and still a populaton increase. The rate of resource decline increases, and a 10% shortage of water and food can grow to a 50% death rate, and after a few years, that become serious.

This mathematical model plays out from 2040 to 2050.

The correct answer is the one that is closest to you.

The Dinosaurs did not die out, they became rats and chickens, after the crash comes new species developed from the survivors.

The same principal works in taxation. A few percent works in a growing economy, which drives the economy higher by building roads, bridges, ports, but as it nears total use, the tax rate has to go up because growth stops. As decline sets in from decline, plus higher taxes, taxes have to rise.

At the same 50% economic death, taxes, the economy fails. Every economy that has taxed more than a third has quickly fallen, and we are past that point. While it seems to take a long time to get there, the tipping point is instant, and not reversable.

At the end those in power try to become rich. Oil goes to $150, ten times what it was when Bush took office, which stalls out other parts of the economy which leads to Wall Street bailouts, governments making banks rich, which causes business to fail, leaving those assets worth a lot less, less than their debt, and it all fails.

Without money government has no power to do anything. We have no food reserves, so an economic collapse causes crops to not get planted, harvested, or sent to market, for there is not a market.

The world will never run out of energy, just human intelligence.


Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn!


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ruveyn
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01 Nov 2009, 5:50 pm

Eggman wrote:

Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn!


There is no forever. In a finite (but large) time interval the universe will be cold and dead, with all free energy dissipated.

ruveyn



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01 Nov 2009, 9:16 pm

Some estimates say that super massive black holes could last around a Googol years which is: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

That sounds like basically forever.



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01 Nov 2009, 9:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Eggman wrote:

Sorry but forever..is forever. Period. 5 billion years is not forever, no matter how manytimes you say uit is. Epic Pwn!


There is no forever. In a finite (but large) time interval the universe will be cold and dead, with all free energy dissipated.

ruveyn


Thus proving my point.

An eccelent example of self pwning


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Eggman
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01 Nov 2009, 9:43 pm

Venger wrote:
Some estimates say that super massive black holes could last around a Googol years which is: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

That sounds like basically forever.


not quite


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01 Nov 2009, 10:07 pm

I said that sounds like basically forever. Of course that doesn't mean literally forever.



jrknothead
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01 Nov 2009, 10:58 pm

Anything that will last farther than the duration of my lifetime, will last forever as far as I'm concerned... the end of the world will not be my problem, so why should I waste time contemplating it? Ditto for anything that happens after I die...



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01 Nov 2009, 11:09 pm

But of course words have meanings, not what we want them to be, so forever mis its meaning, No matter what it is to you. Be technically correct, the best kind of correct


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ruveyn
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02 Nov 2009, 8:37 pm

jrknothead wrote:
Anything that will last farther than the duration of my lifetime, will last forever as far as I'm concerned... the end of the world will not be my problem, so why should I waste time contemplating it? Ditto for anything that happens after I die...


My "forever horizon" is the seventh generation from mine.

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03 Nov 2009, 12:53 am

Native Americans considered how their acts would affect the seventh generation forward.

We borrow the world from our children.