Board index › General Discussion › News and Current Events

Gold: A legacy of our barbarian past?

Page 2 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

Blindspot149
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,516
Location: Aspergers Quadrant, INTJ, AQ 45/50

25 Jun 2010, 8:00 am

lotuspuppy wrote:
Willard wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Willard wrote:
Jewelry is essentially useless, yet humans value it for no rational reason and gold is the most incorruptible metal for jewelry (and statues) because it retains its attractive glow virtually forever without tarnish or rust. Since the amount of available gold is relatively finite, it retains a much more stable value than paper money whose worth is essentially imaginary.


The worth of gold is equally imaginary. It has very few concrete uses (as a metal, rather than as an exchange good). You can't eat it, it won't keep you warm and it has a few artistic and technical uses. Its value as a trade good is determined purely by the players in the market, not by any inherent characteristic of the metal itself. It is a good trade good because it is scarce, it is durable, and it is divisible.

ruveyn


That's what I said, its availability is relatively finite - 'scarce' - therefore, its value is more stable. Paper money can be printed until the banks burst, at which time its worthless. Actually, US currency is already worthless because there is nothing finite of stable value to back it up. Nothing but more paper, of more imaginary value (based on seemingly limitless IOUs), and behind that, only ones and zeros in a computer network. Pay no attention to the Fed behind the curtain... :?


While nothing really backs up the dollar, paper currency has two advantages gold does not. First, paper money is a near universal method of exchange, whereas gold (or at least physical gold) has limitations. Secondly, paper money is far more fungible, whereas gold is not.


Ok............

Definition of MONEY...........

1. Acts as a store of value (paper currencies CANNOT act as a store of wealth as they automatically fall in value each year, at the hand of the printing presses)

2. Acts as a medium of exchange (for the record, GOLD is used as a medium of exchange in MUCH of the (non-Western) world today and under the US Constitution, Gold and Silver coin are the ONLY legal tender recognized in the US even TODAY)


A house today can be purchased with approximately the same WEIGHT of gold as was required a hundred years ago.

A house today requires rather more dollars to purchase than was required a hundred years ago.

PRINTING MONEY IS DEFAULTING ON SOVEREIGN DEBT, IT IS COUNTERFEITING (WHICH IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE WHEN CARRIED OUT BY ANYONE OTHER THAN A GOVERNMENT)


_________________
Now then, tell me. What did Miggs say to you? Multiple Miggs in the next cell. He hissed at you. What did he say?


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

25 Jun 2010, 11:04 am

Blindspot149 wrote:
lotuspuppy wrote:
Willard wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Willard wrote:
Jewelry is essentially useless, yet humans value it for no rational reason and gold is the most incorruptible metal for jewelry (and statues) because it retains its attractive glow virtually forever without tarnish or rust. Since the amount of available gold is relatively finite, it retains a much more stable value than paper money whose worth is essentially imaginary.


The worth of gold is equally imaginary. It has very few concrete uses (as a metal, rather than as an exchange good). You can't eat it, it won't keep you warm and it has a few artistic and technical uses. Its value as a trade good is determined purely by the players in the market, not by any inherent characteristic of the metal itself. It is a good trade good because it is scarce, it is durable, and it is divisible.

ruveyn


That's what I said, its availability is relatively finite - 'scarce' - therefore, its value is more stable. Paper money can be printed until the banks burst, at which time its worthless. Actually, US currency is already worthless because there is nothing finite of stable value to back it up. Nothing but more paper, of more imaginary value (based on seemingly limitless IOUs), and behind that, only ones and zeros in a computer network. Pay no attention to the Fed behind the curtain... :?


While nothing really backs up the dollar, paper currency has two advantages gold does not. First, paper money is a near universal method of exchange, whereas gold (or at least physical gold) has limitations. Secondly, paper money is far more fungible, whereas gold is not.


Ok............

Definition of MONEY...........

1. Acts as a store of value (paper currencies CANNOT act as a store of wealth as they automatically fall in value each year, at the hand of the printing presses)

2. Acts as a medium of exchange (for the record, GOLD is used as a medium of exchange in MUCH of the (non-Western) world today and under the US Constitution, Gold and Silver coin are the ONLY legal tender recognized in the US even TODAY)


A house today can be purchased with approximately the same WEIGHT of gold as was required a hundred years ago.

A house today requires rather more dollars to purchase than was required a hundred years ago.

PRINTING MONEY IS DEFAULTING ON SOVEREIGN DEBT, IT IS COUNTERFEITING (WHICH IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE WHEN CARRIED OUT BY ANYONE OTHER THAN A GOVERNMENT)


Legally issued fiat currency is legal tender, whether you approve of it or not. I trade in my green "counterfeit" money for stuff at the store every day.

ruveyn



Mudboy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,441
Location: Hiding in plain sight

26 Jun 2010, 12:39 am

ruveyn wrote:
The worth of gold is equally imaginary. It has very few concrete uses (as a metal, rather than as an exchange good). You can't eat it, it won't keep you warm and it has a few artistic and technical uses. Its value as a trade good is determined purely by the players in the market, not by any inherent characteristic of the metal itself. It is a good trade good because it is scarce, it is durable, and it is divisible.
The worth of gold is not imaginary. Gold is the modern standard that barter is based on. The more rare an item, the more value it can have. Gold is a rare item, but sot so rare that a small amount cannot be owned by many people. That makes it a good standard value across different regions and cultures. Salt was a form of currency, up until a couple of hundred years ago, because it was rare. Now it is relatively common. Gold would become worthless if a large enough deposit of it was found., and another material would be found as the standard to barter against.


_________________
When I lose an obsession, I feel lost until I find another.
Aspie score: 155 of 200
NT score: 49 of 200


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Jun 2010, 2:09 am

Mudboy wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The worth of gold is equally imaginary. It has very few concrete uses (as a metal, rather than as an exchange good). You can't eat it, it won't keep you warm and it has a few artistic and technical uses. Its value as a trade good is determined purely by the players in the market, not by any inherent characteristic of the metal itself. It is a good trade good because it is scarce, it is durable, and it is divisible.
The worth of gold is not imaginary. Gold is the modern standard that barter is based on. The more rare an item, the more value it can have. Gold is a rare item, but sot so rare that a small amount cannot be owned by many people. That makes it a good standard value across different regions and cultures. Salt was a form of currency, up until a couple of hundred years ago, because it was rare. Now it is relatively common. Gold would become worthless if a large enough deposit of it was found., and another material would be found as the standard to barter against.


The value of my counterfeit federal reserve notes is equally not imaginary. I turned over about sixty dollars of this phoney baloney counterfeit paper and got four bags of groceries including two pounds of sirloin steak. That is not imaginary either.

ruveyn