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Emo? Might want to nix the Iraq vacation...

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Sweetleaf
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15 Mar 2012, 10:33 am

I'm convinced Iraq is full of morons........oh wait its the whole world. Who the hell cares if 'emos' are gay anyways I just find it funny that stupid religious extremists take something so stupid so seriously that they would actually kill kids who dress 'emo' I mean come on. Oh and based on this the U.S did a great job over there.........not :roll:


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Mar 2012, 11:15 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm convinced Iraq is full of morons........oh wait its the whole world. Who the hell cares if 'emos' are gay anyways I just find it funny that stupid religious extremists take something so stupid so seriously that they would actually kill kids who dress 'emo' I mean come on. Oh and based on this the U.S did a great job over there.........not :roll:

True, physically beating the fundamentalism out of them would fly great with the UN and human rights watch organizations.


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15 Mar 2012, 11:21 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm convinced Iraq is full of morons........oh wait its the whole world. Who the hell cares if 'emos' are gay anyways I just find it funny that stupid religious extremists take something so stupid so seriously that they would actually kill kids who dress 'emo' I mean come on. Oh and based on this the U.S did a great job over there.........not :roll:

True, physically beating the fundamentalism out of them would fly great with the UN and human rights watch organizations.


Well there are plenty of people in the u.s who are stupid enough to hate people for 'looking' gay.....though maybe murder of such people is not as encouraged over here.


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Mar 2012, 11:57 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm convinced Iraq is full of morons........oh wait its the whole world. Who the hell cares if 'emos' are gay anyways I just find it funny that stupid religious extremists take something so stupid so seriously that they would actually kill kids who dress 'emo' I mean come on. Oh and based on this the U.S did a great job over there.........not :roll:

True, physically beating the fundamentalism out of them would fly great with the UN and human rights watch organizations.


Well there are plenty of people in the u.s who are stupid enough to hate people for 'looking' gay.....though maybe murder of such people is not as encouraged over here.

Well, again, tell me how we'd 'fix' fundamentalist muslims without committing mass atrocities.

I'm completely with marshall - I think its depraved and disgusting, just that solutions to correcting fundamentalism in a culture within 5 years and within the scope of the Geneva convention is well beyond my own intelligence level, likely beyond any one person's, and I don't know of any articles that have been written which even attempted to suggest that they have come up with a solution that revolutionary to mankind.

I don't mean to ride you on this, I just want to walk you through it to where you can see where that train of thought caves in on itself.


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15 Mar 2012, 12:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I'm convinced Iraq is full of morons........oh wait its the whole world. Who the hell cares if 'emos' are gay anyways I just find it funny that stupid religious extremists take something so stupid so seriously that they would actually kill kids who dress 'emo' I mean come on. Oh and based on this the U.S did a great job over there.........not :roll:

True, physically beating the fundamentalism out of them would fly great with the UN and human rights watch organizations.


Well there are plenty of people in the u.s who are stupid enough to hate people for 'looking' gay.....though maybe murder of such people is not as encouraged over here.

Well, again, tell me how we'd 'fix' fundamentalist muslims without committing mass atrocities.

I'm completely with marshall - I think its depraved and disgusting, just that solutions to correcting fundamentalism in a culture within 5 years and within the scope of the Geneva convention is well beyond my own intelligence level, likely beyond any one person's, and I don't know of any articles that have been written which even attempted to suggest that they have come up with a solution that revolutionary to mankind.

I don't mean to ride you on this, I just want to walk you through it to where you can see where that train of thought caves in on itself.


Uhh I never said I knew how to fix it.....all I'm saying is it doesn't seem like the U.S going over there made things better, seems like things are just as horrid there still. So I am not sure what train of thought you think I'm having.


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15 Mar 2012, 12:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Uhh I never said I knew how to fix it.....all I'm saying is it doesn't seem like the U.S going over there made things better, seems like things are just as horrid there still. So I am not sure what train of thought you think I'm having.

The train of thought suggesting that the US has *any* power over it. The only diffrence has been that they lost a Stalinist leader and now are expressing themselves, we're just finding out that their self-expression isn't always a good thing.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:02 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Uhh I never said I knew how to fix it.....all I'm saying is it doesn't seem like the U.S going over there made things better, seems like things are just as horrid there still. So I am not sure what train of thought you think I'm having.

The train of thought suggesting that the US has *any* power over it. The only diffrence has been that they lost a Stalinist leader and now are expressing themselves, we're just finding out that their self-expression isn't always a good thing.


I was more or less kinda joking first off......I mean there was all that hype about how the U.S was going to make Iraq better by declaring war on their evil government or whatever before that whole mess went down and now they're still running around killing people for looking gay and such. So obviously that didn't do any good.


but i guess i worded it wrong or something so nevermind.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:05 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I was more or less kinda joking first off......I mean there was all that hype about how the U.S was going to make Iraq better by declaring war on their evil government or whatever before that whole mess went down and now they're still running around killing people for looking gay and such. So obviously that didn't do any good.

They're not trying to blow up their neighbors. Its a meager improvement but its an improvement, as in I'm sure it was happening before and completely untelivised as its more of a western concern.


Sweetleaf wrote:
but i guess i worded it wrong or something so nevermind.

Possibly, and I don't know if any of the way I phrased it sounded personal - it wasn't. Just speaking to the point itself.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I was more or less kinda joking first off......I mean there was all that hype about how the U.S was going to make Iraq better by declaring war on their evil government or whatever before that whole mess went down and now they're still running around killing people for looking gay and such. So obviously that didn't do any good.

They're not trying to blow up their neighbors. Its a meager improvement but its an improvement.


Sweetleaf wrote:
but i guess i worded it wrong or something so nevermind.

Possibly, and I don't know if any of the way I phrased it sounded personal - it wasn't. Just speaking to the point itself.


I don't think encouraging killing of people for looking gay is really an improvement at all. The worlds rather screwed up as a whole anyways though so things as a whole would probably get worse before they get better in general. Besides that whole thing had nothing to do with making Iraq better it was about resources even my friend who was in the military knows that.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't think encouraging killing of people for looking gay is really an improvement at all.

I was saying that it was happening before just like its happening now - the difference is they're not trying to blow up their neighbors at the same time. The reason we didn't hear about them killing gays was that Iraqi TV under Saddam wouldn't have found it newsworthy, perhaps a pretty significant swath of the Iraqi people wouldn't have from the way things look now.

Sweetleaf wrote:
The worlds rather screwed up as a whole anyways though so things as a whole would probably get worse before they get better in general. Besides that whole thing had nothing to do with making Iraq better it was about resources even my friend who was in the military knows that.

It was about having seven access of evil countries and trying to flip the one that we felt was the most locationally strategic as well as being the one that we believed could finance its own repairs by - yes - oil. The notion that it was all for oil though is more your friend's notion than any kind of consensus within the armed services or the people who are on the ground over there.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:20 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I don't think encouraging killing of people for looking gay is really an improvement at all.

I was saying that it was happening before just like its happening now - the difference is they're not trying to blow up their neighbors at the same time. The reason we didn't hear about them killing gays was that Iraqi TV under Saddam wouldn't have found it newsworthy, perhaps a pretty significant swath of the Iraqi people wouldn't have from the way things look now.

Oh great they aren't trying to blow up their neighbors......but they are still killing people for looking gay, I think they need a medal for all that improvement. But maybe now that this makes the news more people there will start rejecting the extreme religious beliefs and start joining even more controversial sub-cultures then eventually rational humans will outnumber religious extremists. Even though that still was not the point of that whole Iraq war mess.

Sweetleaf wrote:
The worlds rather screwed up as a whole anyways though so things as a whole would probably get worse before they get better in general. Besides that whole thing had nothing to do with making Iraq better it was about resources even my friend who was in the military knows that.

It was about having seven access of evil countries and trying to flip the one that we felt was the most locationally strategic as well as being the one that we believed could finance its own repairs by - yes - oil. The notion that it was all for oil though is more your friend's notion than any kind of consensus within the armed services or the people who are on the ground over there.


I did not say that was the only thing, just that it was a major thing........it was also probably a power thing. Also I know the U.S funds all kinds of horrid things around the world so its not exactly impressive when the government claims to be starting a conflict to help people when I know damn well that's not what our governments about at all.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:25 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I did not say that was the only thing, just that it was a major thing........it was also probably a power thing. Also I know the U.S funds all kinds of horrid things around the world so its not exactly impressive when the government claims to be starting a conflict to help people when I know damn well that's not what our governments about at all.

I'll stop here because I get the feeling that we could sidetrack this whole thread for days. I won't be taking on the full weight of your worldview today.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I did not say that was the only thing, just that it was a major thing........it was also probably a power thing. Also I know the U.S funds all kinds of horrid things around the world so its not exactly impressive when the government claims to be starting a conflict to help people when I know damn well that's not what our governments about at all.

I'll stop here because I get the feeling that we could sidetrack this whole thread for days. I won't be taking on the full weight of your worldview today.


Yeah it's bound to go off topic if we continue this discussion here, there are threads better fit for that.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:49 pm

Without getting into supporting detail I'll try to sum up where my outlook differs; I tend to see the US as a country that means to do right by the human condition, believes that you can't have fruitful capitalism around the world without representative democracy and regimes that are friendly to that paradigm, and even with the best of intentions, unfortunately, if you live and operate in a dirty world and want to broker any deals at all you're stuck taking a roll in the mud sometimes. IMHO when people do call it an 'evil empire' I tend to think that they're painting a one-sided image to suite ideologies which seem to well up much more from an externalization of internal and personal grievances with reality rather than an objective relay of the outside world.


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15 Mar 2012, 1:58 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Without getting into supporting detail I'll try to sum up where my outlook differs; I tend to see the US as a country that means to do right by the human condition, believes that you can't have fruitful capitalism around the world without representative democracy and regimes that are friendly to that paradigm, and even with the best of intentions, unfortunately, if you live and operate in a dirty world and want to broker any deals at all you're stuck taking a roll in the mud sometimes. IMHO when people do call it an 'evil empire' I tend to think that they're painting a one-sided image to suite ideologies which seem to well up much more from an externalization of internal and personal grievances with reality rather than an objective relay of the outside world.


Yes that would be where we differ, because I hardly think our government means to do the right thing in most situations, but that's just based on everything I've seen, read and in my sociology class we even went into the sort of corporate involvement the U.S has in other countries so it kinda killed that illusion for me.


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15 Mar 2012, 3:33 pm

TBH I'll jump ranks, become an economic liberal, and switch my party affiliation to Democrat, Socialist, or Green the day someone can point me to the stash of hidden/esoteric truths that are withheld from conservatives and neoliberals.


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