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Donald Trump and/or Ted Cruz: The New Barry Goldwater?

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Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2015, 4:14 am

luan78zao wrote:
Ehh, the GOP has tried nominating a "moderate" two elections running, and lost both times. Why not try an actual conservative this time?



Those two moderates in fact had swerved to the right during those elections, and in fact just drove people into Obama's hands. Telling people that they're lazy and shiftless because they're poor and needing federal help, while advocating tax cuts for the rich, as well as advocating denying healthcare to ordinary Americans, and alienating non-white, non-evangelicals, doesn't sit well with the rest of America.


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luan78zao
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08 Dec 2015, 7:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Those two moderates in fact had swerved to the right during those elections, and in fact just drove people into Obama's hands. Telling people that they're lazy and shiftless because they're poor and needing federal help, while advocating tax cuts for the rich, as well as advocating denying healthcare to ordinary Americans, and alienating non-white, non-evangelicals, doesn't sit well with the rest of America.


Obama once "swerved to the right," too. Remember the little online calculator that showed you how much he promised to cut your taxes? What a joke.

I don't think anybody is fooled by last-minute "swerves." (Well … maybe Trump fans.) When the author of Romneycare suddenly declares his devotion to free enterprise, he just comes off like a fool who doesn't believe in anything in particular. Neither Romney nor Me-Too McCain was able to bring out the conservatives, and that sealed their doom.

We may indeed have reached some kind of tipping point, in which a majority of voters prize "free stuff" above all else. If the country is given a clear choice we'll find out.


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08 Dec 2015, 8:33 am

I'm with Shermy.



Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2015, 1:41 pm

luan78zao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those two moderates in fact had swerved to the right during those elections, and in fact just drove people into Obama's hands. Telling people that they're lazy and shiftless because they're poor and needing federal help, while advocating tax cuts for the rich, as well as advocating denying healthcare to ordinary Americans, and alienating non-white, non-evangelicals, doesn't sit well with the rest of America.


Obama once "swerved to the right," too. Remember the little online calculator that showed you how much he promised to cut your taxes? What a joke.

I don't think anybody is fooled by last-minute "swerves." (Well … maybe Trump fans.) When the author of Romneycare suddenly declares his devotion to free enterprise, he just comes off like a fool who doesn't believe in anything in particular. Neither Romney nor Me-Too McCain was able to bring out the conservatives, and that sealed their doom.

We may indeed have reached some kind of tipping point, in which a majority of voters prize "free stuff" above all else. If the country is given a clear choice we'll find out.


All this talk about people voting for "free stuff." What's wrong with a government that actually helps you by providing services? I much prefer that to the conservative promise to stay out of our lives, all the while cutting taxes for people who hardly need tax cuts.


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08 Dec 2015, 2:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
luan78zao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those two moderates in fact had swerved to the right during those elections, and in fact just drove people into Obama's hands. Telling people that they're lazy and shiftless because they're poor and needing federal help, while advocating tax cuts for the rich, as well as advocating denying healthcare to ordinary Americans, and alienating non-white, non-evangelicals, doesn't sit well with the rest of America.


Obama once "swerved to the right," too. Remember the little online calculator that showed you how much he promised to cut your taxes? What a joke.

I don't think anybody is fooled by last-minute "swerves." (Well … maybe Trump fans.) When the author of Romneycare suddenly declares his devotion to free enterprise, he just comes off like a fool who doesn't believe in anything in particular. Neither Romney nor Me-Too McCain was able to bring out the conservatives, and that sealed their doom.

We may indeed have reached some kind of tipping point, in which a majority of voters prize "free stuff" above all else. If the country is given a clear choice we'll find out.


All this talk about people voting for "free stuff." What's wrong with a government that actually helps you by providing services? I much prefer that to the conservative promise to stay out of our lives, all the while cutting taxes for people who hardly need tax cuts.

Sick or disabled people should just kill themselves. Few have the money to be able to pay for their healthcare needs since they can't work do to their illness/disability. f**k them. Let them die.



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08 Dec 2015, 2:58 pm

marshall wrote:

Sick or disabled people should just kill themselves. Few have the money to be able to pay for their healthcare needs since they can't work do to their illness/disability. f**k them. Let them die.


Spoken like a true jackass! You obviously must be from York County, PA: the a**hole Capitol of the universe!



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08 Dec 2015, 3:17 pm

marshall wrote:
Sick or disabled people should just kill themselves. Few have the money to be able to pay for their healthcare needs since they can't work do to their illness/disability. f**k them. Let them die.


Um...does that include all those people on the Autistic spectrum that are "unable to pay for their healthcare needs"? Should those members of our community just, "kill themselves" too?

Seriously, why do people type things like this that apply equally well to so many of us on WP? Is it self-hatred / internalized anti-autism? Or is it just an attitude of pure selfishness?


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08 Dec 2015, 3:19 pm

Got all riled up and forgot to mention:

In the late 1970's when the evangelical & fundamentalist Christians started taking over the GOP, Goldwater realized their values were actually the opposite of the GOP he'd worked so hard to promote for the previous two decades. He ended up disowning the GOP and fighting the religion based values they adopted.


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Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2015, 3:50 pm

Actually, I'm pretty certain marshall was being sarcastic.


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08 Dec 2015, 5:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty certain marshall was being sarcastic.

Somewhere, Nathan Poe is laughing so hard he has tears streaming down his face...


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Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2015, 12:27 am

Edenthiel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty certain marshall was being sarcastic.

Somewhere, Nathan Poe is laughing so hard he has tears streaming down his face...


I'm sure I'm showing my ignorance, but Nathan Poe... Who dat?


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09 Dec 2015, 12:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty certain marshall was being sarcastic.

Somewhere, Nathan Poe is laughing so hard he has tears streaming down his face...


I'm sure I'm showing my ignorance, but Nathan Poe... Who dat?


Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody.



Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2015, 1:09 am

SpiceWolf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty certain marshall was being sarcastic.

Somewhere, Nathan Poe is laughing so hard he has tears streaming down his face...


I'm sure I'm showing my ignorance, but Nathan Poe... Who dat?


Poe's law is an internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extremism are indistinguishable from sincere expressions of extremism. Poe's Law implies that parody will often be mistaken for sincere belief, and sincere beliefs for parody.


Gotcha.


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marshall
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09 Dec 2015, 5:38 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
marshall wrote:

Sick or disabled people should just kill themselves. Few have the money to be able to pay for their healthcare needs since they can't work do to their illness/disability. f**k them. Let them die.


Spoken like a true jackass! You obviously must be from York County, PA: the as*hole Capitol of the universe!

I was being sarcastic. I apologize.



marshall
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09 Dec 2015, 5:44 pm

I actually wish extremist conservatives/libertarians would say what I said. Then people wouldn't be deceived so easily. They'd see what the philosophy is really about. The consequences of what they advocate are nasty and inhumane. But instead of telling everyone straight up what will happen to people, they ramble on about "freedom". The word "freedom" is used like sugar coating on a turd. Most people don't really want the Ayn Rand type of "freedom". Freedom to die like dogs on the street. Yay. :roll:



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10 Dec 2015, 9:21 am

Trump is more like a European right winger it seems. He's more of an authoritarian xenophobe and a little less of an Ayn Rand market fundamentalist like most of the Republican establishment. I really don't think he gives a crap about ideology to be honest. He's just cynically exploiting a right-wing niche that isn't represented by the establishment. He's a calculated demagogue. He knows he doesn't have a chance in the general election but he wants to upset the Republican Party.