R.I.P. The Greatest Show on Earth

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Onyxaxe
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15 Jan 2017, 3:39 pm

androbot01 wrote:

I am so happy I lived to see this. Their exploitation of animals disgusted me even as a child. I don't need to see animals coerced to dance in contortion for entertainment. So so happy about this.

+1

The real circus was about people and their talents.

leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 5:31 pm

androbot01 wrote:

...animals coerced to dance in contortion...

That is a nonsensical description of contented, well-handled show elephants, but I am happy to hear you are pleased they will never again "dance" for anyone.

Onyxaxe wrote:

The real circus was about people and their talents.

Yes, and yet some of those stories are just as horrible as (or even worse than) any grievous stories related to elephants.

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androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 5:39 pm

leejosepho wrote:

That is a nonsensical description of contented, well-handled show elephants, but I am happy to hear you are pleased they will never again "dance" for anyone.

Elephants don't do this in nature. Forcing/coercing them is abuse. Not only is it sad to see animals degraded in this way, it is more disturbing to see the callousness which people can muster to obvious cruelty.

Aprilviolets
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15 Jan 2017, 8:14 pm

I don't like the idea of wild animals in circuses, it is unnatural for them to be made to do tricks and some like lions and tigers are sensitive to noise, also they're transported in those tiny traveling cages to different towns.

MagicMeerkat
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15 Jan 2017, 8:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I say if they were mistreating the elephants it serves them right.

Same here. I've also heard horses are often abused in circuses too.

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leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 8:32 pm

androbot01 wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

That is a nonsensical description of contented, well-handled show elephants, but I am happy to hear you are pleased they will never again "dance" for anyone.

Elephants don't do this in nature. Forcing/coercing them is abuse...

What proof of coercion and/or "abuse" do you have in relation to any one or more elephants being trained to do the things in the photo you have posted, and would you also say the same in relation to any pet (or even a working dog, for example) being trained to do anything at all (such as "Roll over and play dead!" or sniffing for contraband at the airport)? And then, would you also call it "abuse" to teach a parrot to mimic "Polly want a cracker"...or would it be abuse to withhold the cracker from a bird who had never been intentionally trained but had learned to mimic a nearby bird? What about rescue dogs trained to find people trapped in piles of rubble? Overall, please try to display a little more intellectual honesty than whatever less can only ever spin animal training into nothing but alleged coercion and/or abuse!

No one is saying no trained animal is ever abused, but abuse is *not* even a slightest factor in the Feld decision related to the closing of the Ringling Circus and I will not silently sit by and watch this thread be hijacked by activist rhetoric!

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Last edited by leejosepho on 15 Jan 2017, 8:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 8:38 pm

leejosepho wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

That is a nonsensical description of contented, well-handled show elephants, but I am happy to hear you are pleased they will never again "dance" for anyone.

Elephants don't do this in nature. Forcing/coercing them is abuse...

How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted at what these animals are being forced to do for the passing amusement of their captors?

leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 8:43 pm

androbot01 wrote:

How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted...

I did not say I like what I see there, I only asked what proof of coercion and/or abuse you might have in relation to it.

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androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 8:45 pm

leejosepho wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted...

I did not say I like what I see there, I only asked what proof of coercion and/or abuse you might have in relation to it.

That they are doing it is all the proof you need.

leejosepho
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15 Jan 2017, 8:49 pm

androbot01 wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted...

I did not say I like what I see there, I only asked what proof of coercion and/or abuse you might have in relation to it.

That they are doing it is all the proof you need.

Nonsense. That is mere spin ultimately leading to the logical conclusion that no animals whatsoever should ever be "coerced and/or abused" (your allegation, not mine) even into service for blind people.

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EzraS
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15 Jan 2017, 8:54 pm

I doubt considering how important the elephants were to them, that they would abuse them. Like with race horses, my guess is for the most part they took good care of them to protect their investment. As for captivity, most any animal owned by a human is being held in captivity. Many are conditioned and trained by their captors - Dogs, cats, birds and fish should all be set free.

Last edited by EzraS on 15 Jan 2017, 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Darmok
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15 Jan 2017, 8:56 pm

^ Animals don't do this in nature. How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted.

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Last edited by Darmok on 15 Jan 2017, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 8:57 pm

leejosepho wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

androbot01 wrote:

How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted...

I did not say I like what I see there, I only asked what proof of coercion and/or abuse you might have in relation to it.

That they are doing it is all the proof you need.

I didn't say that and it is not a logical conclusion following from what I said. I said it disgusts me that people would coerce/abuse animals for passing amusement. Service animals are actually doing something useful. (So, for example, I would argue that a dog trained to help blind people is great, while dogs competing in a dress-up beauty contest would be asinine.) I find the situation with the elephants to have been particularly awful because they were taken out of their natural environment and their natural communication was replaced with this "training."

I am not a vegetarian, but I am sickened by the treatment of animals during food production. If humanely slaughtered meat were available I would pay more for it, but I would not stop eating meat. I did however stop going to the circus after one visit.

androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 8:59 pm

EzraS wrote:

I doubt considering how important the elephants were to them, that they would abusing them. Like with race horses, my guess is for the most part they took good care of them to protect their investment.

You should do some research into how race horses are treated. It's winning that matters to these people, not the beauty of horses running.

EzraS
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15 Jan 2017, 9:00 pm

Darmok wrote:

^ Animals don't do this in nature. How can you look at that picture and not be disgusted.

I know, that dog is a total slave. It's absolutely abhorrent they be treated in such a manner. See how unhappy that poor slave dog looks? While its evil owner smiles in glee at its suffering? Somebody call PETA on that person.

androbot01
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15 Jan 2017, 9:04 pm

EzraS wrote:

Do you read the posts at all or just throw peanuts from the gallery?

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