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Many Jews have turned up to protest migrant camps

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beneficii
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13 Jul 2019, 8:37 am

EzraS wrote:
That was presumptuous, judgmental and incorrect. My question is one genuine curiosity, which I was not planning on taking anywhere and I certainly would not make such a crass statement as you attributed to me.


Good. I'm glad to know I was wrong about you. :)


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13 Jul 2019, 8:45 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
The whole thing is BS. This is happening because Trump has convinced Americans to hate immigrants as much as he does. Just like Hitler convinced the Germans to hate the Jews

f**k America!



Boy, that's a big jump. Why **** America? Nevermind... :roll:


Because America is evil. Just accept it!
TW1ZTY I have to call you out on this one. I would be delighted to see Trump voted out of office next year (although I don't think I actually hate him) but thinking your whole country is essentially evil discredits you and I wish you understood that. I can think of a number of prominent US Leftists from the past e.g. Pete Seeger, John Steinbeck, Woody Guthrie, Arthur Miller who felt the same way as you about the US "Establishment" but had only love for their country. Would you think America a good country if these policies changed? Consider Hungary — they have an absolutely horrible government now, but do Hungarians feel actual animosity toward their country? And Turkey — their President makes Trump seem like a Boy Scout in comparison, yet I would think Turks still like their country even if they don't like the government (although unfortunately many do).

If there's one thing I DON"T like about America, it's the tendency of some Americans to condemn their own country for political reasons. This does seem like an almost uniquely American trait (comparable only to some in the post-War generation in Germany). Who can respect a country whose own citizens do that?


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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13 Jul 2019, 8:52 am

MaxE wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
The whole thing is BS. This is happening because Trump has convinced Americans to hate immigrants as much as he does. Just like Hitler convinced the Germans to hate the Jews

f**k America!



Boy, that's a big jump. Why **** America? Nevermind... :roll:


Because America is evil. Just accept it!
TW1ZTY I have to call you out on this one. I would be delighted to see Trump voted out of office next year (although I don't think I actually hate him) but thinking your whole country is essentially evil discredits you and I wish you understood that. I can think of a number of prominent US Leftists from the past e.g. Pete Seeger, John Steinbeck, Woody Guthrie, Arthur Miller who felt the same way as you about the US "Establishment" but had only love for their country. Would you think America a good country if these policies changed? Consider Hungary — they have an absolutely horrible government now, but do Hungarians feel actual animosity toward their country? And Turkey — their President makes Trump seem like a Boy Scout in comparison, yet I would think Turks still like their country even if they don't like the government (although unfortunately many do).

If there's one thing I DON"T like about America, it's the tendency of some Americans to condemn their own country for political reasons. This does seem like an almost uniquely American trait (comparable only to some in the post-War generation in Germany). Who can respect a country whose own citizens do that?


*sigh* You're right.


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EzraS
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13 Jul 2019, 8:57 am

beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That was presumptuous, judgmental and incorrect. My question is one genuine curiosity, which I was not planning on taking anywhere and I certainly would not make such a crass statement as you attributed to me.


Good. I'm glad to know I was wrong about you. :)


Such mistakes can be avoided in the future by refraining from an ad hominem approach.



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13 Jul 2019, 9:02 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
MaxE wrote:


*sigh* You're right.
Thank you for your response. Further thoughts (not directed at you personally!):

This whole "F**k America!" mentality began during the Vietnam War and I don't think existed previously. Often manifested as placards carried by protesters on which the word "America" was spelled with a K (also a slight at Germans) or with a swastika, or both.

And when I think about it, I can't help wondering if some of this was actively but covertly encouraged by the Soviet Union. Look at today's Russia where they are more obviously doing the exact same sort of thing. We are vulnerable to this due to our colonist/immigrant background. We don't have Russia's centuries-old tradition of "Russian-ness" to bolster our patriotism. Divide and conquer being the watchword.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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13 Jul 2019, 9:13 am

MaxE wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
MaxE wrote:


*sigh* You're right.
Thank you for your response. Further thoughts (not directed at you personally!):

This whole "F**k America!" mentality began during the Vietnam War and I don't think existed previously. Often manifested as placards carried by protesters on which the word "America" was spelled with a K (also a slight at Germans) or with a swastika, or both.

And when I think about it, I can't help wondering if some of this was actively but covertly encouraged by the Soviet Union. Look at today's Russia where they are more obviously doing the exact same sort of thing. We are vulnerable to this due to our colonist/immigrant background. We don't have Russia's centuries-old tradition of "Russian-ness" to bolster our patriotism. Divide and conquer being the watchword.


Some Americans began hating their own country ever since the Veitnam war because we started finding out the truth about what really goes on in wars. We learned about how our soldiers and leaders are not the honorable heroes they make themselves out to be in the history books and on TV. We were dragged into the Veitnam War all because of a lie, just like the War in Iraq which happened more recently. We commited atrocious crimes on the people of Veitnam AND we were sacrifacing young men in our own country who were drafted right out of high school for a war that we had no business getting involved in. Many Veitnam veterans were deeply traumatized by what they were exposed to.

I think Americans have the right to feel cynical about their own country. We're now finding out that our country is not the perfect utopia that we were all raised to believe it was.


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13 Jul 2019, 9:19 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I think Americans have the right to feel cynical about their own country. We're now finding out that our country is not the perfect utopia that we were all raised to believe it was.
I think this is making America a better place. Cynicism is something we've not had enough of in the past, which has sometimes caused "older" societies to view us as an naÏve, immature society. But the people responsible e.g. Dick Cheney don't represent America, we should see them as our tormentors. We are a good country inhabited by good people, just like other countries.


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beneficii
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13 Jul 2019, 9:32 am

EzraS wrote:
beneficii wrote:
EzraS wrote:
That was presumptuous, judgmental and incorrect. My question is one genuine curiosity, which I was not planning on taking anywhere and I certainly would not make such a crass statement as you attributed to me.


Good. I'm glad to know I was wrong about you. :)


Such mistakes can be avoided in the future by refraining from an ad hominem approach.


Far too many times in the past few years, I've come across heartless people who are willing to cause all manner of pain and suffering to achieve their ideological goals. Please, bear with me.


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13 Jul 2019, 11:05 am

I wonder if they'll go and protest against Israel who are carrying out real crimes.
Can't remember any hysterics when Obama was doing the same and deporting millions. Can't remember the hysteria when he was blowing up children across the world.
It's actually disgraceful to compare this situation to WWII. The illegal immigrants are breaking the law and if they tried this in Israel they would executed. The illegal immigrants should not be risking their children's life and well being by taking them into another country ILLEGALLY. Also the neoliberal policies that push these situations are being ignored.


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13 Jul 2019, 1:28 pm

EzraS wrote:
One thing I want to know. Are the migrants free to leave the camps to go back south of the border?


As far as I know, they are not.


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13 Jul 2019, 1:30 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
I wonder if they'll go and protest against Israel who are carrying out real crimes.
Can't remember any hysterics when Obama was doing the same and deporting millions. Can't remember the hysteria when he was blowing up children across the world.
It's actually disgraceful to compare this situation to WWII. The illegal immigrants are breaking the law and if they tried this in Israel they would executed. The illegal immigrants should not be risking their children's life and well being by taking them into another country ILLEGALLY. Also the neoliberal policies that push these situations are being ignored.


Generally protests are more useful in the country a thing is happening in. As in it would be more effective for Isrealis who live in Israel to protest what Israel is doing in regard to the palestinians. And also more useful for people here to protest what is going on here.

What good would it do if a few americans go to Israel to protest? or if a few foreigners here came to protest the current treatment of migrants.


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JohnPowell
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13 Jul 2019, 1:33 pm

The US gives Israel $10 million a day, military support, weapons etc. Israel would be screwed without US support.


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KT67
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13 Jul 2019, 1:56 pm

Not f America.

But f Trump and f the policies and mindset which leads to this stuff.

(Not American but) America is meant to be about freedom and Lady Liberty.


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sadana
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14 Jul 2019, 1:40 pm

Bernie sanders with beyonce protesting against segregation in 1963

Image


Unfortunately beyonce ditched love and equality for some anodyne pop hits..



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14 Jul 2019, 1:51 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
The US gives Israel $10 million a day, military support, weapons etc. Israel would be screwed without US support.


And what is your logic?


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14 Jul 2019, 3:38 pm

sadana wrote:
Bernie sanders with beyonce protesting against segregation in 1963

<image removed>


Unfortunately beyonce ditched love and equality for some anodyne pop hits..
Sorry I don't get this Beyoncé business. And please don't try to explain the joke, if that's what it is.


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