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Misslizard
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25 Feb 2022, 3:25 pm

The people in Ukraine know who “Satan”is.Ask the people huddled in subway stations or fleeing their homes.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Feb 2022, 3:57 pm

roronoa79 wrote:

Honestly non-aligned status could be the best Ukraine could hope for at this point. Being Finlandized is better than being a de jure puppet state.

There is no dishonor in seeking terms with an enemy you have no chance of beating. What exactly would Zelenskyy do if he "put his spine" into this decision? Order all civilians and military to fight until there is nothing left to defend? Ukraine will lose. Anyone with half a brain can see that. Defiance will only prolong the suffering of the people of Ukraine.

I don't know the specifics of rootb33r's politics, but many here in the US who are fans of Putin wish there was a conservative leader here more like Putin. That is: a competent, feared, unapologetic "strong man" nationalist who triggers the libs. They may hate Putin for opposing US interests, but they love his flouting of western liberals and progressives. They wish the US had a leader who was as feared by his enemies domestic and abroad in the same way Putin is.

In other term, the pro-Trump?

The_Face_of_Boo
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25 Feb 2022, 3:59 pm

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What's all about this Putin fandom in America?

I'm curious myself.

Probably they never been under an occupation led by a totalitarian madman for decades.

roronoa79
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25 Feb 2022, 4:51 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

roronoa79 wrote:

In other term, the pro-Trump?

I'm not exactly a fan of your average democrat/liberal, but I haven't seen any of them being Putin fans or apologists. Many on the right in my country, especially Trumpsters, look at men like Putin and Órban and ask "why can't we have a leader like that?".

They have to be macho-manly patriotic and talk up how we need a leader who inspires fear in our enemies. They ignore that leaders who value democracy, freedom, and equality do not tend to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies the same way men like Putin and Xi do.

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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.
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magz
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25 Feb 2022, 5:03 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What's all about this Putin fandom in America?

I'm curious myself.

Probably they never been under an occupation led by a totalitarian madman for decades.

Probably unable to even imagine it can be real.

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that1weirdgrrrl
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25 Feb 2022, 6:55 pm

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

What's all about this Putin fandom in America?

I'm curious myself.

Probably they never been under an occupation led by a totalitarian madman for decades.

Probably unable to even imagine it can be real.

From what I see, they tend to glamorize it. They believe that citizens of communist countries have all of their needs met and live comfortably. They view communism as a sort of utopia.

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cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 7:45 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sometimes simply not seeing someone as Satan himself gets viewed as fandom.

Labelling Putin as satan and ignoring all the other "demons" is to be expected. Does anyone really think he's going to do anything more than create a puppet state in Ukraine?

cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 7:51 pm

roronoa79 wrote:

I'm not exactly a fan of your average democrat/liberal, but I haven't seen any of them being Putin fans or apologists. .

I'm a leftie but I don't care about Putin's ambitions in former Soviet states like Ukraine. He's going to do it and nobody is going to stop him anyway. Putin sees (and he's partly right) Ukrainian nationalists as dangerous fascist milita.

Nobody cared or gave two hoots when the Burmese military Junta and so called nobel peace prize winners started genociding people in western and northern Burma. They just called it "anti-terrorism",.

Nobody cared when Saudi Arabia launched a massive attack on an "independent" country of Yemen killing unknown numbers of civilians.

There is a global/geopolitical double standard, Do I support Putin...no...but I wouldn't life a finger...no...not until the global community starts treating all people the same.

Matrix Glitch
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25 Feb 2022, 7:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sometimes simply not seeing someone as Satan himself gets viewed as fandom.

Labelling Putin as satan and ignoring all the other "demons" is to be expected. Does anyone really think he's going to do anything more than create a puppet state in Ukraine?

Putin supporter! :evil:

j/k

cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 7:57 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sometimes simply not seeing someone as Satan himself gets viewed as fandom.

Labelling Putin as satan and ignoring all the other "demons" is to be expected. Does anyone really think he's going to do anything more than create a puppet state in Ukraine?

Putin supporter! :evil:

j/k

I'm a non-interventionist

r00tb33r
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25 Feb 2022, 8:18 pm

Misslizard wrote:

The people in Ukraine know who “Satan”is.Ask the people huddled in subway stations or fleeing their homes.

Wait... Hah. Satan is a missile, isn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_(missile)

That's a meaning everyone else here didn't pick up on.

Matrix Glitch
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25 Feb 2022, 8:19 pm

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sometimes simply not seeing someone as Satan himself gets viewed as fandom.

Labelling Putin as satan and ignoring all the other "demons" is to be expected. Does anyone really think he's going to do anything more than create a puppet state in Ukraine?

Putin supporter! :evil:

j/k

I'm a non-interventionist

I am too. I think a lot of what other nations, especially the US, do about it is just going to cause hardship on the common citizens throughout the world.

cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 8:24 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Matrix Glitch wrote:

Sometimes simply not seeing someone as Satan himself gets viewed as fandom.

Labelling Putin as satan and ignoring all the other "demons" is to be expected. Does anyone really think he's going to do anything more than create a puppet state in Ukraine?

Putin supporter! :evil:

j/k

I'm a non-interventionist

I am too. I think a lot of what other nations, especially the US, do about it is just going to cause hardship on the common citizens throughout the world.

Precisely^^^ it's not a price I'm willing to pay.

It's not like anyone lifted a finger to help South Africa between 1948-1991 when it was occupied by an evil colonial government, However sanctions worked in the end.

So using that logic sanction Russia but don't sacrifice other people's lives by sending in foreign troops to die in a fight that has nothing to do with them.

DW_a_mom
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25 Feb 2022, 9:03 pm

@r00tb33r, Let's be real. There was NEVER a peaceful solution outside of "become Russian puppets" that Putin would have ever accepted. Zelinsky may be out of his league playing Chess against Putin, but so is everyone else, and Zelinsky remains the popularly elected leader of an independent country; for that reason alone he deserves western support. It also sounds like he is generally reacting calmly and carefully. Putin plays the long game and doesn't compromise. We KNOW this, so why place blame anywhere other than on the aggressor to whom it belongs?

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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 25 Feb 2022, 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DW_a_mom
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25 Feb 2022, 9:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:

So using that logic sanction Russia but don't sacrifice other people's lives by sending in foreign troops to die in a fight that has nothing to do with them.

I don't want to, either, but the long game here is far different than the other examples you've put in this thread. Putin is trying to destroy Democracy as a governing model, period. Still, I don't think a ground war is the solution we're looking for. The west has to be much, much smarter than that. I'm just not sure HOW.

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kraftiekortie
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25 Feb 2022, 9:11 pm

We should certainly have prevented the genocides in places like Burma and Rwanda.

Yes, there is a double-standard.

It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t help the Ukrainians.

We have to do much better in establishing a more moral world.

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