Rape victim, 13, stoned to death in stadium

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Yes!! ! I've said it often enough!! How unreal, however, that I must be the one to do so?!
Why is it there must be a pretense of respecting primitive and foolish assertions, without a single iota of reason or evidence? Why are archaic, savage beliefs taken as untouchable?!
Why do you damned ignorant fools foist your burden, the burden of proof, upon me and those like me?!

Prove it, then! Prove there IS a god! Prove that it is your god!
You cannot.

Observe complex multi-dimensional quantum dynamics - and the phenomenon of "mathematical fate".

There is an evolving concept innojysics whereby the precise origins and pattern of the universe can be traced mathematically, something I am particularly talented at.

That's my proof. I can actually see the f**king universe; whilst you pretenders claim a false greatness and "closer understanding" through your primitive static-observation pack psychology.

Religion is a very serious mental illness. Cease ignoring the brilliance of reality, only to state at the dim embers that were once so bright in the eyes of a younger humanity!

I see.

Well, it's been fun.

Can you prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist? Can you prove for that matter that the Tooth Fairy does not exist? That Santa Claus does not exist? Can you prove that three-legged green-coloured Martians with antennae do not exist? There is no proof these things exist, and none that they don't - a common condition of imaginary beings.
Occam's razor: If there's no evidence it exists, assume it doesn't.

I don't think I could go around apply the principle of Occam's Razor to everything. A measure of faith in ordinary things is needed to live. Very closley related to faith is trust. If I can trust in people and in the world, it's easier to live my life. If trust is present, genuinely present, constant validation and substantification aren't necessary.

Who here has trust issues?

Well, Ishmael, I can only say that this absolute belief in your own logic and methods is one of the blessings and curses I've seen with AS. I'm not a complete scientific or math light weight; the policies of the Bush administration have me seriously worried about the intelligence of our nation; but I still am not remotely capable of the arrogance you wear with pride. It is both your gift and your weaknesses. I just hope that in your unique life path it serves you well.

But you don't trust the world, you trust your gods "design" of the world by your religions definitions, which is fatalistic.

WRT being of mixed descent, Slowmutant and Ishmael, you do both realize that people of mixed races have greater heterozygosity and are therefore generally healthier and more bilaterally symmetric ('attractive') than people of 'pure' descent? Just as with dogs, being a 'mongrel' human is not an insult; pure-bred dogs may be more predictable in terms of what a puppy will look like when it gets old, and aesthetically pleasing in some ways, but they have far more health problems and die younger than mutts.

The tone of my recent posts has been far ruder and more strident than usual for me (I wouldn't be that rude in person unless I was really, really mad), but honestly in the context of this thread I can't bring myself to apologize for it. Religion is like a handgun; one can use it to protect oneself, but far more often it is used for violence and intimidation.

Young women in Afghanistan die in droves during childbirth because their religion says both that they should be married off as soon as they hit puberty, and that a strange male seeing her private parts (read: doctor) is equivalent to her having an affair. Young boys are ejected from their FLDS homes in droves in the United States because their religion says that men should marry more than one woman, and since boys and girls are born in equal numbers even in FLDS homes, the older men eject most of the boys when they hit puberty in order to keep up a high women:men ratio.

In Saudi Arabia, Osama Bin Laden was admired by his family for the strength of his convictions until he left the fold to wage global jihad.

Like gays, atheists have been expected to shut up and hide their views and not embarass anyone for pretty much the history of the western world; we're supposed to say 'Merry Christmas' whether we believe it or not, and if we say 'Happy Holidays' or 'Enjoy the Season,' we are considered rude. If we express disgust for the consumer frenzy that christmas has become, with overwhelming incense and canned christmas music and decorated trees up before Halloween, we are considered rude.
Well, goodness: If stating my views in any way at all is rude, why not go for the whole hog?

You views are obviously influenced by the corners of the world you have experienced. Where I live, we're PC to the extreme. You won't hear "Merry Christmas" around here; it is always "Happy Holidays." And I got left fretting if I might offend someone when I choose a candy cane project for my child's class holiday party. Turns out some Christians are now claiming a totally made up "Legend of the Candy Cane" and giving hidden Christian meaning to the colors and shape. In my experience, even my Jewish friends enjoyed candy canes. Now I had to wonder.

Nothing you claim would be deemed rude, would actually be deemed rude, in my experience. Which makes it a lame excuse for being rude back. You either live in an odd place, or your perception has been distorted.

I agree, btw, that setting up Christmas before Halloween is nuts. And I've expressed that. And everyone agrees. Well, except the shopkeeper setting it up. But you get my point. Your statement that not enjoying is considered rude is plain wrong. Judge your own behavior for what it is or is not. And stop hiding behind a "the world is X" excuse.

Do I seem to you like I'm hiding anything? If so, I guess I'm not being rude enough.

Maybe, but can you create a boulder bigger than you can lift?

i'll answer with a question.. if god's 'all powerfull' then wouldn't it be hypocritical for him to not be able to lift a boulder?

as for the original question, yes. i can carry brick after brick but i can't lift a wall the same as i can make something large enough for me to not be able to carry.

There is no correct answer to that question. It's a Zen riddle.

No it isn't! That's one of those damned psuedo-philosophical tea-sipper "riddles".

Excuse me, but it is a Zen riddle. It's like Show me your face before you were born or Why did Bodhidharma come to China? or What is the sound of one hand clapping?

so how is is supposed to prove your point?




if a tree falls in the middle of a forrest and no one hears it, does it make a noise?
just because no one experiences it doesn't mean it didn't happen, but there is a great deal of proof that noise occurs when a tree falls... so i'll go with yes.

if you want to see someone's face before they were born just go for a pre-natal scan or ultrasound... unless your god doesn't allow it

Any answer you could possibly give to a koan (Zen saying) is wrong. They are meant to be pondered. Koans have no logical solution, they're used for mind-training.

A koan is the intellectual equivalent of a tar-baby. You can't help but get stuck, and the harder you struggle, the more stuck you get.