Video games in crosshairs after Newtown shootings

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JBlitzen
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21 Dec 2012, 11:58 pm

shrox wrote:
Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?

I'm unaware of any peer reviewed research which has ever conclusively verified a causal link between video games and violent acts.

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc aficionados need not apply.

I can put a gun in your hands, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

I can force you to play a violent video game, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

It's not a question, it's a fact. If you disagree with either of those, then you're lying. If you think that you're "special" and that everyone else is susceptible to them, then you're probably a narcissist.

I understand you're trying to work around those facts by saying that just 1%, or 3%, or .2%, of people are somehow susceptible. But in the absence of actual research showing a causal link, all you're saying is that 1%, 3%, or .2% of the population has criminal tendencies, and obviously a certain fraction of the population does indeed have criminal tendencies, otherwise there wouldn't be any criminals.

Stop blaming non-causal factors.

You want a causal factor? Try here:

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome
Quote:
Abrupt cessation of treatment with dopamine antagonists may precipitate a florid psychosis with delusions, hallucinations, and suicidal and/or homicidal behavior. It is better to slowly taper the dose (by 10% increments of the original dose) while closely observing the patient for exacerbation of psychotic symptoms.

We're prescribing drugs to 15 year olds that can cause psychotic episodes manifesting in homicidal behavior, and we think cartoons are the f*****g problem? Come on.



hanyo
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22 Dec 2012, 12:04 am

I have a hard time believing that video games cause violent behavior because it never did for me. Violent video games never made me violent any more than playing Harvest Moon or Farmville made me move out to the country and become a farmer or The Sims made me become a promiscuous architect that liked to kill people by locking them in my house and burning or starving them to death or trapping them in my pool until they drown. To me it's more like a fantasy escape to do things I'd never do in real life, except for some obvious life simulation parts of the sims.



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22 Dec 2012, 12:30 am

JBlitzen wrote:
shrox wrote:
Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?

I'm unaware of any peer reviewed research which has ever conclusively verified a causal link between video games and violent acts.

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc aficionados need not apply.

I can put a gun in your hands, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

I can force you to play a violent video game, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

It's not a question, it's a fact. If you disagree with either of those, then you're lying. If you think that you're "special" and that everyone else is susceptible to them, then you're probably a narcissist.

I understand you're trying to work around those facts by saying that just 1%, or 3%, or .2%, of people are somehow susceptible. But in the absence of actual research showing a causal link, all you're saying is that 1%, 3%, or .2% of the population has criminal tendencies, and obviously a certain fraction of the population does indeed have criminal tendencies, otherwise there wouldn't be any criminals.

Stop blaming non-causal factors.

You want a causal factor? Try here:

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome
Quote:
Abrupt cessation of treatment with dopamine antagonists may precipitate a florid psychosis with delusions, hallucinations, and suicidal and/or homicidal behavior. It is better to slowly taper the dose (by 10% increments of the original dose) while closely observing the patient for exacerbation of psychotic symptoms.

We're prescribing drugs to 15 year olds that can cause psychotic episodes manifesting in homicidal behavior, and we think cartoons are the f***ing problem? Come on.


Yet, even NRA VP blamed the recent shooting on video games, movies and television. Most media leave out the fact that Lanza was on meds. I don't really know if he played violent games too much. But some people are quick to resort to blame it on those things, or on "evil guns".

It's a miracle that nobody is attacking meds yet. Or on those guns being outside a gun safe.

Fyi, I heard rumors that Obama cutted mental health funding recently. I don't think this would help but I felt like it should be put out there.


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shrox
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22 Dec 2012, 12:37 am

JBlitzen wrote:
shrox wrote:
Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?

I'm unaware of any peer reviewed research which has ever conclusively verified a causal link between video games and violent acts.

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc aficionados need not apply.

I can put a gun in your hands, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

I can force you to play a violent video game, and YOU WILL NOT KILL ANYONE.

It's not a question, it's a fact. If you disagree with either of those, then you're lying. If you think that you're "special" and that everyone else is susceptible to them, then you're probably a narcissist.

I understand you're trying to work around those facts by saying that just 1%, or 3%, or .2%, of people are somehow susceptible. But in the absence of actual research showing a causal link, all you're saying is that 1%, 3%, or .2% of the population has criminal tendencies, and obviously a certain fraction of the population does indeed have criminal tendencies, otherwise there wouldn't be any criminals.

Stop blaming non-causal factors.

You want a causal factor? Try here:

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome
Quote:
Abrupt cessation of treatment with dopamine antagonists may precipitate a florid psychosis with delusions, hallucinations, and suicidal and/or homicidal behavior. It is better to slowly taper the dose (by 10% increments of the original dose) while closely observing the patient for exacerbation of psychotic symptoms.

We're prescribing drugs to 15 year olds that can cause psychotic episodes manifesting in homicidal behavior, and we think cartoons are the f***ing problem? Come on.


I said that media definitely affects and influences people, nowhere did I blame video games for anything.



JBlitzen
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22 Dec 2012, 1:21 am

NorthPark wrote:
It's a miracle that nobody is attacking meds yet. Or on those guns being outside a gun safe.

I wonder about this, but I think it's related to the fact that most nightly news shows are heavily funded by pharmaceutical companies. Look at all the ads.



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22 Dec 2012, 1:56 am

By 2015, firearm fatalities will likely exceed traffic fatalities in the United States

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/20 ... ed-states/



JBlitzen
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22 Dec 2012, 2:20 am

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22 Dec 2012, 6:12 am

shrox wrote:
By 2015, firearm fatalities will likely exceed traffic fatalities in the United States

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/20 ... ed-states/


Only if you include suicides, which are over 60% of gun deaths. Not exactly an honest point.


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22 Dec 2012, 11:37 am

shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
shrox wrote:
CyborgUprising wrote:
raisedbyignorance wrote:
13 years ago, we were blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine. Needless to say our approach towards scapegoating has not evolved much since then.


Let us not forget Rammstein and KMFDM, some of the perpetrators' favorite bands. The news even played a song about using a shotgun to kill kids in a school, claiming it was a KMFDM song. Having every album in their discography, I knew that the band never released or even produced such a track. If you listened to the vocals, it was painfully obvious they weren't sung by Sascha or anyone else affiliated with the band. I can see where they get off with saying "weisses Fleisch" by Rammstein was about killing someone at school, though according to Rammstein, that's not what it's about (the lines that translate to "I'm on the schoolyard and I'm ready to kill / nobody here knows of my loneliness were what put it in the spotlight). Music and videogames do not drive people to commit crimes anymore than Sam Carr's dog told David Berkowitz to kill.


What's the first thing a kid does after watching Superman? Uses a towel for a cape and jumps off the couch or even the roof. To say media doesn't influence people is just wrong. Advertising is based on media's ability to influence people.


Influence and compelling individuals to do something are two whole different things. Commercials may be designed to influence consumer habits, but that commercial doesn't force the individual to do so, nor does it force the individual to like what they are advertising. As for the Superman bit, I've never wanted to don a towel and leap to my demise. Listening to Rammstein, playing Doom and watching Superman doesn't create a supervillain that shoots up schools while listening to industrial music and wearing a cape. If you're that easily controlled by external input, that's your problem, not mine. I listened to the same music as Klebold and Harris, but I haven't committed a school shooting or even thought of doing such a thing. That alone disproves your "fact" that music and other media causes one to commit crimes.


Consider this, 100 people are in a room and they all have one gun each with a 30 round magazine. If only 1% (one person) of the people in the room starts shooting at the others in the room, is this low percentage acceptable?

Change the number to .1% of 1000, .01% of 10,000, .001% of 100,000. What is an acceptable percentage?


Well by that [sarcasm] infallible logic [/sarcasm], I guess we need to ban cars and alcohol. Afterall, people are killed in motor vehicle accidents and by alcohol toxicity, not to mention drunk driving kills people. While we're at it, I guess we better start banning balconies, since children have died from falling off of them. What is an acceptible percentage of fatalities and injuries from these?
That's what I thought...
Your logic is severely flawed.


Not really, that's why there are DUI checkpoints, People got tired of the alcohol caused carnage on the roads.

DUI checkpoints only catch a small number of offenders, it's akin to placing metal detectors in public facilities to prevent people from bringing in weapons. All one has to do is bypass these measures, which isn't hard to do.



shrox
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22 Dec 2012, 1:08 pm

So the basic argument I see here is that a certain amount of killing is just something to put with...just can't do anything about it.



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22 Dec 2012, 1:24 pm

shrox wrote:
So the basic argument I see here is that a certain amount of killing is just something to put with...just can't do anything about it.


Point out where I've said this. I merely pointed out the faulty logic regarding the idea of banning video-games due to the possibility that even one person may go "off the deep end" yet saying that things that lead to far more deaths should not be banned. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You argue that if video-games and music cause one person to commit a spree killing (there is absolutely zero evidence supporting this) we should instantly assume every gamer/listener of certain genres of music is a ticking time-bomb, inching ever closer to detonation. I bring up that alcohol, falls and MVAs kill far more people than any influence the media has, but you balk at the idea that we should ban those things. Why the inconsistency?



JBlitzen
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22 Dec 2012, 1:43 pm

shrox wrote:
So the basic argument I see here is that a certain amount of killing is just something to put with...just can't do anything about it.

If the only purpose of society is to prevent killing, then the entire population should be forcibly sterilized and locked up in padded rooms.



shrox
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22 Dec 2012, 1:48 pm

JBlitzen wrote:
shrox wrote:
So the basic argument I see here is that a certain amount of killing is just something to put with...just can't do anything about it.

If the only purpose of society is to prevent killing, then the entire population should be forcibly sterilized and locked up in padded rooms.


Forget it.

Enjoy the violence.



Autinger
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22 Dec 2012, 1:58 pm

/rant
I don't get why people would blame videogames for it. If someone ends up "going crazy" over something like that than anything relatively violent/upsetting would have.

*cough* let alone the whole thing that people -do- kill each other even legally and sometimes for no other reason than someone living in another country by for example means of war every single day and those people are supposed to praised for -their- mass murders *cough*.

I mean, what do people want, either become completely passive to any form of violence, or stop raising your kids on some platform that they should be hide from reality.
What kind of plan do these people have? Block their children from the one thing every nation on this planet is built on; bloodshed by war till their 18 and then have "the talk" with them about all the news/wars/ect they missed, oh and btw, we're sending you to war too now since you're 18 and our president now got into an arguement over some oilprices so have fun.

And what does his possible autism got to do with it? That recent media rage is making me pretty scared, especially considering how dumb most people are, as shown by that video I posted earlier.. people were clapping like sheep because the lady who had the camera pointed on her was asking for it. I don't see why I should get restricted anymore than anyone else who didn't look at themselves good enough to get themselves possibly diagnosed. I really hope the american autism organisations are raising hell against the media over their linking the tragedy directly to that guys autism.

/rant off.



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22 Dec 2012, 2:37 pm

shrox wrote:

Forget it.

Enjoy the violence.


Violence is not for enjoying. But we shall always have it. It is the nature or our species.

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