World War III?
The point is the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, not Ukrainians. And with political parties like Svoboda (near fascists) agitating against ethnic minorities such as the Russians, I can see many Russians in Crimea would rather be part of Russia.
I think this time the Russians are right and the EU is very, very wrong. Their empty promises escalated this conflict long before the Russian military came in. The US is sort of on the sideline, they don't have anything to offer except empty words.
What happened is that the EU made its offer to Yanukovich that included a very small amount of money conditional on IMF Structural Adjustment policies (hiking fuel costs, prices of staples, privatisation, etc)... Other conditions included to shut down the local arms industry and buy American weapons for NATO compatibility for future NATO membership. Ukraine was also told to reduce its ties with Russia, that the Ukraine had to choose the West and only the West; meawhile, Putin was saying that he did not mind if Ukraine expanded relations with the EU and that it could also expand those with Russia. Ukraine's leverage in playing one side against the other would be completely lost by accepting the EU deal In short, it was a horrible deal.
It shows very well a difference between Putin and the West in that Putin is reluctant to interfere in the internal affairs of statess and this is a matter of policy, and he is criticised for propping up evil regimes and enabling corruption and this is a sort of imperialism,l whilst the virtuous West micromanages societies with stringent conditions and policies drawn up in the West...
When Yanukovich said no to the bad deal, the regime change operation began in earnest. Putin offered his fiendish $15 billion no strings attached offer and Yanukovich inteliigently said yes to that. The regime change operation was stepped up, led by neo-Nazis like the Right Sector and Svoboda.
I can go on further but this alone shows that any pretense of Western moral superiority is false.
Tollorin
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Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,178
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada
The Ukrainians are very largely a bunch of vile anti Semites. I would not lift a finger to help them. I am not particularly fond of the Russians either because they also tend to be anti-Semitic. I say let the two parties claw each other to death.
ruveyn
Syria II, protesters demand the President leave, and they will take over the government.
An agreement for new elections is reached, which the protesters first agree to, then renounce.
In both cases it results in a standoff, then someone starts shooting protesters.
There is no evidence it was the government. It was snipers, not troops with tanks clearing the streets.
It could not be the President, it would have to be the chain of command down the army or police, which means dozens of people would know. Only the President is being charged.
As for his wealth, only the rich can run for President. Rommney, McCain, Gore. If they have any chance of being elected, they will have rich friends, who will demand to keep their wealth.
As for crime, Our Governor, his son, three Insurance Commissioners, a Congressman, and our Parish President, were all sent to Federal Prison. Now it is the Mayor of New Orleans on trial.
I think this is the third overthrow of government since 1993. The last government got out of jail on this overthrow.
Everyone over 21 was born in the CCCP.
The IMF bailed out the last two governments, conditional on reforms being inflicted, they were not.
The IMF wanted them to raise taxes, the price of gas, cut wages, and give the money to the IMF.
Obama is offering a billion, which is a loan guarnity, for another IMF loan. it is for gas subsidies, the same thing the IMF said they had to end.
What Putin offered $15 Billion for was to make the payments on Euro Bonds, that had put the country in debt, and were now due. Debts to the IMF were above that.
It was sub prime lending to countries that had no way to pay. The first two governments rode the gravy train of easy debt. then with cheap gas, they still got $5 Billion behind to paying Russia, who has still not cut off the gas.
Ukraine is in $35 Billion debt, and needs another $35 Billion just to function for the next two years. They have no way of paying it back. They have no way of becoming self supporting.
This was the same, "Indebted Nation" they ran on the colonies, and ex colonies, to reduce them to donor slaves.
Russia's offer was to buy them out of indentured servitude, which becomes eturnal at interest.
When the USSR broke up, they dumped the basket welfare cases, and kept the natural resources. In some places they leased a navel base, spaceport, and disposed of the atomic bombs.
A Free Ukraine is not going to compete with Germany in industry.
For twenty years the west has been providing cheap debt, which eastern Europe took just as they took CCCP welfare.
Guess what, eastern Europe has no intention of paying it back. They understand it as a bribe, which calling it a gift is questionable, so call it a loan, but never try to collect.
There are also huge roadblocks to doing business in eastern Europe. Where they privatized industry, you also had to take lifetime employees that did not work, and pay other people you never saw, plus bribes to get anything done, or permits to do it yourself. Then you would have to pay Unions who did not do the job.
Russia is better to invest in. You cannot buy them, but they will let you join the gang. Everywhere, play by the local rules. Never bribe anyone, because the US says no no. Marry a local who is related to the top person to bribe, and it is all family.
The Russian speaking part of Ukraine is better. More industry, tourism, the lease for the Navel Base, where the west is rural, agracultural, Ukraine speaking, and no one except them speaks Ukraine.
Economics will win. the south and east is worth it, the west is a forever welfare case.
Czechoslovakia was an industrial powerhouse in the west, the Skoda works, glass making, lots of very old industry, and the east was hillbilly Slovacia, now their own Free Country. Ukraine is the same.
Yugoslavia was partitioned by language, religion, culture. Ukraine is next.
The EU knows that with membership, they will also get migration, and no one wants Ukranians.
The US wants to locate a missle base. They are not willing to pay the $100,000,000 a day it would take to keep the Ukraine running.
Russia is about to raise the price of gas, in West Ukraine, and lower it in the south and east. That alone will tilt the economy toward higher incomes, and cheaper production.
The value of Ukraine money was based on endless loans and Russian lease payments. it is about to become worthless. Russian money will retain value.
Ukraine just passed a law that outlawed Russian language, told them to all learn Ukraine.
Russian speakers, with Russian money, a stronger economy, this war is over.
Also, getting out of Afganistan is through Russia. or going to Pakistan. We need Russia. Supply in Afganistan is by leased Russian helicopters, that can fly much higher than ours. Our fuel supply comes through Russia.
Sanctions can backfire.
Since the Soviet Union broke up, and the Cold War ended, the sole stupid power has destroyed it's economy, invaded countries without cause, killed millions, spied on our allies, and acted the role of the world bully.
Our actions in Syria are State supported terrorism.
We are a Thuggery, and a loan shark, It takes endless war to keep our economy running.
Repent! The end is near!
With his actions lately, it's kind of obvious he's preparing for an assault somewhere. If the missile thing is true, then it's just more evidence to support the theory.
_________________
Writer. Author.
So, it seems like Putin and co. were hoping that someone would start shooting at the totally-not-Russian-soldiers (we promise!) who're armed with .ru weapons, wearing .ru camo, and driving around in .ru armored rides in the Ukraine's backwoods, but no one took the bait (because no one really wants to start shooting at people who aren't shooting at you).
So, no big reason to fully invade for Putin and co., and everyone is just..., kinda, "there" and talking trash.
Ha ha ha.
So, no big reason to fully invade for Putin and co., and everyone is just..., kinda, "there" and talking trash.
Ha ha ha.
I think the reverse is true. Many of the Russian soldiers didn't even have a magazine in their rifle. Clearly they were not expecting real resistance. By intervening they are probably preventing escalation. The lie about the soldiers not being Russian soldiers is probably a manner of style. I don't think the Russians really care whether anyone believes the lie, it's just their narrative and they stick to it.
The Russian army is like ours, 18 to 22. The Self Defense Forces are men 30 to 40.
The Ukraine has universal draft, every man does a year of training.
What you can see in the pictures are local older men.
Everyone in the area uses Russian arms, and the patterns on the uniforms do not match.
The uniforms most likely were issued by the Ukraine over the last twenty years.
For the most part, it didn't appear like there all that much in the way of violence* going on to provide proactive peacekeepers to the area (without asking for permission to supply them at that). It doesn't appear Russia was in any danger at all of it spilling over, perhaps other than some new immigrants.
*Nothing on the magnitude you see in Africa, Asia and the Middle East (Persian Gulf also)
In other areas of the east and south, where there is no Russian presence, Russian speaking self defense units are taking over government buildings and raising the Russian flag.
Elected governments are calling for joining Crimea.
The people who had enough votes to win a National election, are now holding a vote on partition.
The Government of the Ukraine has been and is the problem, before the Social Nationalists took over.
The agreement to hold early elections was a vote of no confidence, and there is a lot less now.
The EU signed that agreement, it is binding.
Most of the country does not recognize the government in Kiev. It is not what they agreed to.
The Crimean government will be holding a referendum on whether to join the Russian Federation:
BBC News
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