More Syrians will be Admitted to Texas Today

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frenchmanflats
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09 Dec 2015, 3:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, Lincoln had originally favored colonization of freed blacks, but by the end of his life he was talking about extending full citizenship to blacks. It was in fact that speech in which he announced this plan that very probably cost him his life, as a very enraged John Wilkes Boothe had been in the audience.
And yes, Lincoln had originally excluded states remaining in the Union from having their slaves freed, but it must be remembered, Lincoln would have lost border states like Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri had he emancipated slaves there. The truth was, ending slavery was a complicated issue as people were willing to kill and die for it's continuation, and so Lincoln had to do it in stages at the opportune times.
And yes, the Radical Republicans had been much more fired up publicly than Lincoln was, but Lincoln understood that he simply couldn't go charging in like a bull in a china shop, like the radicals had wanted. Ultimately, though, Lincoln accomplished emancipation taking his time, rather than just blowing the whole situation by angrily blundering in.


His main interest was saving the Union. Freeing the slaves an after thought especially being pressured to do something about the slaves. There were members in his own cabinent who did not care about the slaves.



frenchmanflats
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09 Dec 2015, 3:20 am

Lincoln's first term as President began on March 4, 1861, his second term exactly four years later. He surrounded himself with men who shared his views on slavery. Many of his cabinet members were much better educated than Lincoln, and no doubt some, or maybe all, felt that they could do a better job. However, it is a tribute to Lincoln's management style that he was able to keep the cabinet moving in the right direction, despite the efforts of some of its members. On the surface they were usually courteous to each other; however, beneath their polite exterior, they were plagued by rivalry, disagreement, animosity, different temperaments and jealousy over the president. Lincoln would usually mediate between Cabinet members. They were free to disagree with each other but Lincoln was the balance. within the cabinet. Lincoln's political family, his executive cabinet, was a constant source of tension to the President in the early of the war. It was compromised of better men who better educated, better known, and politically experienced than the President. The original members of the Republican Party contained the most fractious members of the party. In fact all four of the cabinet members of had originally campaigned against the President against Lincoln against him for the Presidency, They Senator William Seward of New York, Senator Salmon Chase of Ohio, Senator Simon Cameron of Pennsylvania and Judge Edward Bates of Missouri.Bates's tenure as Attorney General generally met with mixed reviews. On the one hand, he was important in carrying out some of Lincoln's earlier war policies, including the arbitrary arrest of southern sympathizers and seditious northerners. On the other hand, as Lincoln's policies became more radical, Bates became increasingly irrelevant. Bates disagreed with Lincoln on emancipation and the recruitment of blacks into the Union Army.He would be replaced by James Speed. Each of these men spoke highly of the President but called him an inferior candidate. Yet, Lincoln possessed the political confidence to take on these men on one to one. He took his political rivals and incorporated them in his cabinet believing that their collective talent and patriotism his would allow the Union to survive.

Seward became Secretary of State,Chase to be Secretary of the Treasury, Cameron to Secretary of War later taken by Edwin Stanton . Secretary Chase implemented a unified nationwide banking system with the National Banking Act, and devised the idea of utilizing paper currency to function as war notes. The "greenback" bills, which came in various denominations, became the basis for the federal paper money system that Americans use today. In order to collect taxes to finance the government's war effort, he also established the Bureau of Internal Revenue, which later became known as the Internal Revenue Service. Chase was eventually fired but appointed of the Supreme Court of the United States.6 .The remaining Democrats were given posts as a gesture of goodwill, Gideon Wells was made Secretary of the Navy. Welles found the Naval Department in disarray, with Southern officers resigning en masse. His first major action was to dispatch the Navy's most powerful warship, the USS Powhatan, to relieve Fort Sumter on Lincoln's instructions. Unfortunately, Secretary of State Seward had just ordered the Powhatan to Fort Pickens, Florida on his own authority, ruining whatever chance Major Robert Anderson had of withstanding the assault. Several weeks later, when Seward argued for a blockade of Southern ports, Welles argued vociferously against the action but was eventually overruled by Lincoln. Despite his successes, Welles was never at ease in the Cabinet. His anti-English sentiments caused him to clash with Seward, and Welles's conservative stances led to arguments with Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase and War Secretary Edwin M. Stanton.

Stanton was the only cabinet member to take Lincoln’s security seriously, and after the assassination he became preoccupied with bringing the killers to justice, Secretary of the Treasury, second term Hugh McCulloch, though he was anti-slavery he believed that whites were superior black., Interior Secretary John Usher was swapped out for James Harlan, one of Lincoln's staunchest supporters in the Senate. Another contender for the 1860 presidential nomination, he finished third on the first ballot, behind Lincoln and Seward was Simon Cameron. He threw his support to Lincoln only after wrangling a promise from Lincoln's staff that he would be given a cabinet post. Lincoln was unaware of this deal at the time it was made, but he decided reluctantly to honor the promise once elected. Cameron refused to follow Lincoln's directions and his term was marked by scandals and corruption, ultimately leading to a censure vote from the House of Representatives.



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10 Dec 2015, 12:13 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, Lincoln had originally favored colonization of freed blacks, but by the end of his life he was talking about extending full citizenship to blacks. It was in fact that speech in which he announced this plan that very probably cost him his life, as a very enraged John Wilkes Boothe had been in the audience.
And yes, Lincoln had originally excluded states remaining in the Union from having their slaves freed, but it must be remembered, Lincoln would have lost border states like Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri had he emancipated slaves there. The truth was, ending slavery was a complicated issue as people were willing to kill and die for it's continuation, and so Lincoln had to do it in stages at the opportune times.
And yes, the Radical Republicans had been much more fired up publicly than Lincoln was, but Lincoln understood that he simply couldn't go charging in like a bull in a china shop, like the radicals had wanted. Ultimately, though, Lincoln accomplished emancipation taking his time, rather than just blowing the whole situation by angrily blundering in.


His main interest was saving the Union. Freeing the slaves an after thought especially being pressured to do something about the slaves. There were members in his own cabinent who did not care about the slaves.


Yes, Lincoln's primary motivation was to save the Union, but that doesn't mean ending slavery was just an after thought. It was more a matter of time and opportunity for Lincoln to turn the war to save the Union into a war of liberation in the hearts and minds of Americans.


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frenchmanflats
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10 Dec 2015, 12:28 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
frenchmanflats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, Lincoln had originally favored colonization of freed blacks, but by the end of his life he was talking about extending full citizenship to blacks. It was in fact that speech in which he announced this plan that very probably cost him his life, as a very enraged John Wilkes Boothe had been in the audience.
And yes, Lincoln had originally excluded states remaining in the Union from having their slaves freed, but it must be remembered, Lincoln would have lost border states like Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri had he emancipated slaves there. The truth was, ending slavery was a complicated issue as people were willing to kill and die for it's continuation, and so Lincoln had to do it in stages at the opportune times.
And yes, the Radical Republicans had been much more fired up publicly than Lincoln was, but Lincoln understood that he simply couldn't go charging in like a bull in a china shop, like the radicals had wanted. Ultimately, though, Lincoln accomplished emancipation taking his time, rather than just blowing the whole situation by angrily blundering in.


His main interest was saving the Union. Freeing the slaves an after thought especially being pressured to do something about the slaves. There were members in his own cabinent who did not care about the slaves.


Yes, Lincoln's primary motivation was to save the Union, but that doesn't mean ending slavery was just an after thought. It was more a matter of time and opportunity for Lincoln to turn the war to save the Union into a war of liberation in the hearts and minds of Americans.



Then why did he wait until 1863 to change mind?In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law Why did he pick cabinent members that thought that slavery was secondary? Some of these men were bigots.



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10 Dec 2015, 12:49 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
frenchmanflats wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, Lincoln had originally favored colonization of freed blacks, but by the end of his life he was talking about extending full citizenship to blacks. It was in fact that speech in which he announced this plan that very probably cost him his life, as a very enraged John Wilkes Boothe had been in the audience.
And yes, Lincoln had originally excluded states remaining in the Union from having their slaves freed, but it must be remembered, Lincoln would have lost border states like Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri had he emancipated slaves there. The truth was, ending slavery was a complicated issue as people were willing to kill and die for it's continuation, and so Lincoln had to do it in stages at the opportune times.
And yes, the Radical Republicans had been much more fired up publicly than Lincoln was, but Lincoln understood that he simply couldn't go charging in like a bull in a china shop, like the radicals had wanted. Ultimately, though, Lincoln accomplished emancipation taking his time, rather than just blowing the whole situation by angrily blundering in.


His main interest was saving the Union. Freeing the slaves an after thought especially being pressured to do something about the slaves. There were members in his own cabinent who did not care about the slaves.


Yes, Lincoln's primary motivation was to save the Union, but that doesn't mean ending slavery was just an after thought. It was more a matter of time and opportunity for Lincoln to turn the war to save the Union into a war of liberation in the hearts and minds of Americans.



Then why did he wait until 1863 to change mind?In his inaugural address, delivered on March 4, 1861, Lincoln proclaimed that it was his duty to maintain the Union. He also declared that he had no intention of ending slavery where it existed, or of repealing the Fugitive Slave Law Why did he pick cabinent members that thought that slavery was secondary? Some of these men were bigots.


I reiterate, the time was not yet right, as freeing slaves was incredibly enough not popular among most northerners, yet. If it was a matter of Lincoln waking up one morning and saying, "I think I'll free the slaves today," it all depended on which morning. That is, he had to choose the right time to make a move against slavery. And that meant, saying he didn't plan to end slavery, when in fact that was always something he had hoped he could do. As the abolitionists of the time were seen as a radical fringe movement, attracting the likes of John Brown, it would be political suicide for Lincoln to announce any plan for emancipation. Lincoln was hardly the type to crash and burn, accomplishing nothing, when distorting the truth could get what he really wanted in the end. As for those bigoted members of his cabinet - well, Lincoln was looking for people who could win him the war, while also considering political appointments.


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frenchmanflats
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10 Dec 2015, 2:24 am

Of course it would have been a disaster for the North who depended on Southern Cotton and money. New York City was an divided city. Even though it was a Northern city it directly depended on the South both for export of cotton and the money it brought in. Southerners deposited their money in northern banks. Some banks today got their start from the slave trade. But there were some members of the Union Army were slave owners. Grant owned slaves. In fact he owned several slaves. Grant owned a slave named William Jones, whom he freed in 1859. Between 1854 and 1859 Grant worked and lived on an 850-acre farm in Missouri, near St. Louis, that was owned by his father-in-law. Grant’s wife, Julia, also owned slaves, and during Grant’s management of the farm he worked along with one of them, a man named Dan



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10 Dec 2015, 2:46 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
Of course it would have been a disaster for the North who depended on Southern Cotton and money. New York City was an divided city. Even though it was a Northern city it directly depended on the South both for export of cotton and the money it brought in. Southerners deposited their money in northern banks. Some banks today got their start from the slave trade. But there were some members of the Union Army were slave owners. Grant owned slaves. In fact he owned several slaves. Grant owned a slave named William Jones, whom he freed in 1859. Between 1854 and 1859 Grant worked and lived on an 850-acre farm in Missouri, near St. Louis, that was owned by his father-in-law. Grant’s wife, Julia, also owned slaves, and during Grant’s management of the farm he worked along with one of them, a man named Dan


Wasn't the slave owner in this case really Grant's wife?
You know, we've really strayed pretty far from the OP's topic.


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10 Dec 2015, 2:52 am

If he knew about it he was complicit. He did own them and there is no escaping that.In December 1862, Grant issued General Order # 11, which expelled all Jews from the three states of Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi



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10 Dec 2015, 3:00 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
If he knew about it he was complicit. He did own them and there is no escaping that.In December 1862, Grant issued General Order # 11, which expelled all Jews from the three states of Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi


That I had never heard of regarding the Jews, so forgive me if I check on it first.
That said, Grant was hardly perfect, as anyone (Lee and Davis had ordered that all blacks serving in Union uniforms be shot on sight). To Grant's credit, he had stopped the KKK dead in it's tracks during Reconstruction, and that's commendable.


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10 Dec 2015, 4:42 am

Sylkat wrote:
I believe that the whole point is to carefully and thoroughly investigate each individual requesting asylum, to insure that no dangerous person is allowed in.

How exactly is this done? there is no paper trail leading back to criminal records in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for any undercover terrorist. Syria in particular it's almost impossible to verify a person's former connection with islamic groups. Our immigration minister Dutton, here in Australia, claims it's unlikely that a would be terrorist would be willing to sit in a refugee camp for more than a few months. However this totally ignores the old strategy of setting up sleeper cells. ISIS is supposed to have set up (allegedly) thousands...



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10 Dec 2015, 5:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sylkat wrote:
I believe that the whole point is to carefully and thoroughly investigate each individual requesting asylum, to insure that no dangerous person is allowed in.

How exactly is this done? there is no paper trail leading back to criminal records in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for any undercover terrorist. Syria in particular it's almost impossible to verify a person's former connection with islamic groups. Our immigration minister Dutton, here in Australia, claims it's unlikely that a would be terrorist would be willing to sit in a refugee camp for more than a few months. However this totally ignores the old strategy of setting up sleeper cells. ISIS is supposed to have set up (allegedly) thousands...


The visa system needs to be overhauled. It is outdated. We should vet people before they enter the country. The NSA need their powers back of monitoring information that flows. Also they should be "fingerprinted" using biometrics when they enter the country. In California, when you get an license of any type use must provide fingerprints by a laser scanner. You must also must provide a thumbprint that is scanned on a laser scanner when you get a driver's license. Every station at the DMV has a scanner. That information is then put on the magnetic strip on the back of the license.We should start monitoring Mosques that promote Radicalization. Put a wire in the Mosques so they can be reviewed by law enforcement such as the FBI.



Last edited by frenchmanflats on 10 Dec 2015, 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Dec 2015, 12:08 pm

I checked up on the charge that Grant had exiled Jews from the border states, and yes, he had. In an effort to rid that region of the black market cotton trade, Grant saw a number of Jewish names among the black marketeers. So he rationalized he could solve the problem by just ordering all the Jews out of this region. The goal was good, but the means by which Grant sought to accomplish it was hardly worthy of him, and is a stain on his historic reputation.


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10 Dec 2015, 4:14 pm

I had never heard of General Order #11.....I am disgusted.


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11 Dec 2015, 12:26 am

Grant ended up deporting 100 people.

GENERAL ORDERS No. 11.
HDQRS. 13TH A. C., DEPT. OF THE TENN.,
Holly Springs, December 17, 1862.

The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the department within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.
Post commanders will see that all of this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters.
No passes will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application for trade permits.

By order of Maj. Gen. U.S. Grant:
JNO. A. RAWLINS,
Assistant Adjutant-General.



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11 Dec 2015, 4:10 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Sylkat wrote:
I believe that the whole point is to carefully and thoroughly investigate each individual requesting asylum, to insure that no dangerous person is allowed in.

How exactly is this done? there is no paper trail leading back to criminal records in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for any undercover terrorist. Syria in particular it's almost impossible to verify a person's former connection with islamic groups. Our immigration minister Dutton, here in Australia, claims it's unlikely that a would be terrorist would be willing to sit in a refugee camp for more than a few months. However this totally ignores the old strategy of setting up sleeper cells. ISIS is supposed to have set up (allegedly) thousands...


The visa system needs to be overhauled. It is outdated. We should vet people before they enter the country. The NSA need their powers back of monitoring information that flows. Also they should be "fingerprinted" using biometrics when they enter the country. In California, when you get an license of any type use must provide fingerprints by a laser scanner. You must also must provide a thumbprint that is scanned on a laser scanner when you get a driver's license. Every station at the DMV has a scanner. That information is then put on the magnetic strip on the back of the license.We should start monitoring Mosques that promote Radicalization. Put a wire in the Mosques so they can be reviewed by law enforcement such as the FBI.


I'm guessing if you came up with this then FBI/NSA have (based on their enourmous budgets) already got contingencies in place. I imagine it won't look crash hot for their KPIs if a Syrian dude dressed in rags got into the states as a refugee and detonates a bomb in the white house.



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11 Dec 2015, 4:16 am

The President is not fond of these two agencies. Both have had budgets cut. I would expand the authority of the NSA and FBI.If you get a government or teaching job you must provide fingerprints so they can do a background check. Sometimes you have to fee to the federal and state government to do this. When I had to apply for a financial license, I had to pay a fee or background check if I passed the test along with my fingerprints taken. In some highly secured federal areas you must provide a hand scan or pupil scan. This should be applied to everyone entering the country and cross checked with a database especially people who live in known countries who affiliate with known terrorist groups,.